NARKISSOS need your input on Rev. 5:10

by IronClaw 10 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  IronClaw

  My wife just gave me notes that she took at this past Memorial. In her notes the speaker referring to the 144,000 and what they will be doing uses Rev.5:10 as saying they will rule "OVER" the earth. When reading this scripture in my Tyndale bible it reads as "ON" the earth. I then got a few other versions I have around my house and they render it as "upon" or "on" the earth. Interestingly I took out the 1969 version of the Kingdom Interlinear and under the Greek it reads "upon" the earth and next to it in the NWT translation it reads "over" the earth.

  I wonder if the WTS deliberately changed this word to go along with their dogma that the 144,000 will rule OVER the earth. Any thoughts are welcome.

  IronClaw.
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  Leolaia

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/bible/167888/1/NWT-Revelation-5-10-Rule-on-the-earth-or-over-the-earth
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  IronClaw

  Thanks Leolaia

  The Claw.
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  Narkissos

  Well, it is ambiguous; the preposition epi naturally means "up(on)", but it can mean "over" when associated with a verb of "ruling" or domination such as basileuô, to "reign". Cf. Luke 1:33, he will reign over the house of Jacob", 19:14 "we don't want this man to reign over us" (idem v. 27). But on the other hand epi tès gès can be understood as "(up)on the earth".

  In French "ils régneront sur la terre" is just as ambiguous as the Greek.

  (Too late ;)
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  Leolaia

  hehe :) (didn't want to touch on your toes, but I remembered the thread)

  The issue seems to be NOT the translation itself but how the verse is used by the WTS. In that other thread, I gave examples from the literature that shows that the Society uses the NWT rendering to give a heavenly spatial location when this sense of English "over" (which is ambiguous in English) is not what is expressed by the Greek word (no more than a king ruling "over a land" is himself physically in the air over the land).
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  IronClaw

  Thanks Nark, Leo, That thread was very enlightening. I guess they can put a spin on anything to get their point across.

  The Claw.
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  Narkissos

  Ah I see (I had missed that thread apparently).

  Although it is not entirely clear to me, from the WT quotes there, whether they derive the idea of a heavenly location of the rulers specifically from the (probably correct) use of "over" (which would indeed be plain stupid, even from an English-only perspective -- either it's spatial or it's not) or other considerations (such as the location of the thrones in Revelation, or even completely unrelated scriptures).
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  AuldSoul

  Narkissos and Leolaia, I don't know if anyone has reminded you lately but you are both wonderful!

  And, IronClaw:

  
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  Leolaia

  Thanks, Narkissos, "other considerations" may well be responsible for those references; I will be a little more charitable on this matter in the future (as I tried to be in my OP).
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  wobble

  I think this is a wonderfull example of Rutherfordian Theology, i.e think of a Doctrine and then find scriptures which seem to back it up,if you can't find any twist the ones which come close.

  I have learned since leaving the WTB$ to read scripture with an open mind,then use my critical faculties,and if I am still not sure,then listen to Leo and Narko et al and then you get a good idea of what scripture means.

  love

  Wobble