Job: Jehovah's Deal with the Devil

by cameo-d 13 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • cameo-d
    cameo-d

    If the scriptures in the Book of Enoch has enough validity to be mentioned in Jude....

    the wager between Jehovah and the Debbil, concerning the demise of Job, could never have happened.

    According to Enoch...Jehovah and Satan were not even on speaking terms during that time.

    This quote from Enoch 13 takes place shortly after "the fall".

    1 And Enoch went and said: ÔAzazel, thou shalt have no peace: a severe sentence has gone forth

    2 against thee to put thee in bonds: And thou shalt not have toleration nor request granted to thee, because of the unrighteousness which thou hast taught, and because of all the works of godlessness

    3 and unrighteousness and sin which thou hast shown to men.Õ Then I went and spoke to them all

    4 together, and they were all afraid, and fear and trembling seized them. And they besought me to draw up a petition for them that they might find forgiveness, and to read their petition in the presence

    5 of the Lord of heaven. For from thenceforward they could not speak (with Him) nor lift up their

    6 eyes to heaven for shame of their sins for which they had been condemned.

    http://www.mourningrose.com/enoch.html

    Another interesting passage appears to conflict with what many christians have been taught concerning "Original Sin" being the fault of Adam and Eve.

    From Enoch 10:

    8 Watchers have disclosed and have taught their sons. And the whole earth has been corrupted

    9 through the works that were taught by Azazel: to him ascribe all sin.

  • truthsetsonefree
    truthsetsonefree

    Interesting. Maybe those hallucinating ancients were all confused.

  • WTWizard
    WTWizard

    Any questions as to why the book of Enoch was thrown out of the Unholy Bible? If it were included, it would be too blatant that the Bible lies.

  • cameo-d
    cameo-d

    From Enoch 10:

    8 Watchers have disclosed and have taught their sons. And the whole earth has been corrupted

    9 through the works that were taught by Azazel: to him ascribe all sin.

    According to this version of the story:

    Where "sin" is concerned, the blame is laid justly on the one who caused it.

    Does it really make sense that the sins of the world should be laid on Jesus?

    In that context Jesus would be nothing more than the same as the scapegoat sacrifice which originated with the Jews.

    Also, if Jehovah is a just god, then this "ransom sacrifice" is not a rational nor fair punishment for the perpetrater of sin.

    Enoch certainly puts a "new light" on things!

  • lurk3r
    lurk3r

    which naturally begs the questions about the Book of Job. A fairy tale? A bold faced lie? A misrepresentaion of another possible scenario?

    Cam, you made refernce to the " demise" of Job. Long story shorter. He stuck to his guns and was rewarded. Perhaps worth a re read on my part.

    lurk3r

  • cameo-d
    cameo-d

    Cam, you made refernce to the " demise" of Job. Long story shorter. He stuck to his guns and was rewarded. Perhaps worth a re read on my part.

    I meant his family and his fortune, not him personally.

    Is it really such a "reward"?

    If you lost your family and pets, (because someone used you as a pawn in a bet) would you just blow it off and be happy with new replacements?

    The above link to Book of Enoch is pretty interesting reading.

  • lurk3r
    lurk3r

    2 more posts left after this one.

    It is interesting reading...

    who do you think the "holy ones" are in 12 vs 2?

    lurkr

  • cameo-d
    cameo-d

    2 more posts left after this one.

    Am sending you PM.

  • Leolaia
    Leolaia

    The perspective in Job is altogether different from that of the Book of Watchers of 1 Enoch. Neither of which is representative of the Christian idea of "Satan". In Job, the satan is a member of Yahweh's heavenly court who acts somewhat as his prosecuting attorney, whom Yahweh delegates authority and power (notice that the satan obeys Yahweh's instructions). In the Book of Watchers, there is no such character as Satan. Instead evil arises through the actions of a group of angels, the leader of which is not Asael but Shemihazah (Asael is rather tenth in authority compared to Shemihazah, cf. 6:7). The angel Asael in 1 Enoch should also not be confused with the Azazel demon in the scapegoat ritual of Leviticus 16 (and in the rabbinics), which is spelled `z'zl. The name is spelled "Azazel" in the tertiary Ethiopic text tradition through an assimilation to this separate tradition, but in the original Aramaic and secondary Greek it is "Asael" (`s'l and Asaèl). I would suggest using the recent translation of 1 Enoch by Nickelsburg which draws on the Aramaic and Greek texts and avoids some of the corruptions of the Ethiopic text.

  • cameo-d
    cameo-d

    The angel Asael in 1 Enoch should also not be confused with the Azazel demon in the scapegoat ritual of Leviticus 16 (and in the rabbinics), which is spelled `z'zl.

    Thank you for that clarification, Leolaia. I had wondered if they could be one and the same since the spelling was so similar.

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