How does shunning work?

by tympan 18 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

Big Tex

I'm curious. You describe yourself, in your first post, as a "third-generation witness", and yet you now claim to know nothing about a very basic tenent of Jehovah's Witnesses -- shunning? You also claim to have been in a branch office for 3 years as well as being a "big shot" in the local congregation.
Since you were born into this cult, and apparently involved in a reasonably deep level, you must have seen or heard of someone disfellowshipped, and the subsequent punishment of shunning. How do you now start a thread entitled, "How does shunning work?". How do you not know anything about the consequences of being disfellowshipped (or disassocating), much less know nothing about "marking", a teaching that has been in place since the early 1980's?
Your statements in this thread seems incongruous to previous statements.
Chris
parakeet

Big Tex: " Your statements in this thread seems incongruous to previous statements. "
Do we dare say it? Is tympan a tr..., tr....., tro......? I'll hold off until further developments.
Lady Lee

regardless of what or who the poster is the issue is important. Few outsiders understand how this nasty business works
Big Tex

Good point LL. And it is a subject worthy of discussion, especially to alert any non-Witness exactly how damaging the teaching is.
Having said that, I found statements made in this thread difficult to match up with previous statements. I would be interested in hearing a response from this person. I, for one, wasn't raised a Witness and yet I knew exactly what shunning was very early on. I haven't been a Witness for 20 years and I've never once forgotten what "marking" is or what it means. I just find it odd this person "forgets".
Chris
skeeter1

I am glad you asked this question.
1) How does it start?
Shunning can happen for two reasons: disfellowshipping or disassociation. Disfellowshipping is where you do an unrepentant sin that is so bad, that the elders automatically disfellowship you to keep the flock spiritually clean. For example, smoking or celebrating Christmas would be a disfellowshipping sin...as would adultery or murder.
Disassociation is where you are considered to have ousted yourself because of your actions. This is the new trick to begin shunning on a sect member who unrepentantly would accept a blood transfusion for himself, a family member, or recommend a blood transfusion to another follower. The Society calls is disassociation, so as to make it appear to be the follower's choice. But, it is really the same coin.
2) What does shunning entail?
I was taught that you couldn't even look at the sinner. His evil would ensnare you. You are to consider the person dead in your eyes, as they are dead in Jehovah's eyes. Even if you see him in the mall, you are not to even nod hello. The sinner is so bad that they will never be resuurected into the Paradise Earth after Amegheddon.
In the family situation, it's tricky. If the sinner turns 18, the immediate family (including mom & dad) are to shun the sinful child. This means absolutely no contact whatsoever. Thrown out of the house, written out of the will, etc.
If the sinner is under 18, the parents are now commanded to continue providing for the child's wellbeing, but to discontinue talking about spiritual matters with the child and having prayer apart. The uncles/aunt/cousins/etc. of the sinful child are expected to have no contact with the child.
If the sinner is a spouse, then the other spouse is encouraged to avoid talking of any spiritual matters. The Soceity gives a "nod" if the goodie spouse wants to divorce the sinner spouse.
Say a parent goes against the religion...his children are sort of "marked" in the church as being from a bad family. They are semi-shunned, for their parent's sins. So many times, the child will "go the extra mile" and become a super-Jehovah's Witness in an attempt to regain social status.
Legalistic matters are allowed to be communicated between family members (i.e. your mother died). Only the elders can contact an ousted member, and that is to see if the sinner wants to repent and rejoin.
3) A follower can be disfellowshipped for not following the shunning rules.
4) Why does this matter?
Jehovah's Witnesses are a super tight circle. They are not encouraged to keep non-Jehovah's Witness friends (i.e. "worldly people"). Jehovah's Witnesses are taught that worldly people are sinful and evil, and will be killed in Armegheddon unless they find Jehovah first. While they do speak with worldly people in order to indoctrinate them or to do business with them as their employment requires, I don't think you'd ever find a Jehovah's Witness openly throwing a party at their house and inviting worldly people over.
Their entire circle of friends becomes the Witnesses. Many times their job is linked to another Jehovah's Witness business. To "go against" the religion, they have to replace their family, friends, and sometimes their jobs.
Imagine if everyone in your family died today. That is how shunning feels. If you call them up, they will hang up the phone. Letters will be returned. It's devastating and has lead to suicides.
5) Current literature on shunning. I think this will answer alot of your questions.
http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/173213/1/How-does-shunning-work
tympan

I n response to Big Tex.
I'm curious. You describe yourself, in your first post, as a "third-generation witness", and yet you now claim to know nothing about a very basic tenent of Jehovah's Witnesses -- shunning? You also claim to have been in a branch office for 3 years as well as being a "big shot" in the local congregation.
I started this thread to clarify in my mind exactly how the process of shunning works. Which is why I asked for a technical description of the way the policy is instituted. As I stated, I am not df'd so I was wondering how my relatives justify, to themselves, their behaviour toward me.
As far as my stating that I was a big-shot in my local congregation - well that's how I viewed myself at that young age. I thought I was really important, a vital cog. In reality I was just another self-righteous wanker.
How do you not know anything about the consequences of being disfellowshipped (or disassocating), much less know nothing about "marking", a teaching that has been in place since the early 1980's ?
Where did I ever, in any of my posts, state that I know nothing of disfellowshipping or disassociating? I actually stated in my question above that I am not df'd. I toyed with the idea of disassociating myself for many years, but in the end I decided that I'd be only playing their (the org's) game. I decided (mainly in the hope of family harmony - vainly as it turned out) that I would let the whole thing slip of the org's radar.
I would be interested in hearing a response from this person. I, for one, wasn't raised a Witness and yet I knew exactly what shunning was very early on. I haven't been a Witness for 20 years and I've never once forgotten what "marking" is or what it means. I just find it odd this person "forgets".
Well good for you! I haven't been a witness for 15 years, and I have purposely forgotten as much as I could about the single most painful thing in my life. Why do you judge me by your standards? Leaving the jw's was something that shattered my world. Forgive me if I cannot recall the minutiae of the arcane policies of the wt. That was the point of my post. I couldn't remember the exact details of the policy and I appreciate the detailed responses of the above posters.
I have a lot of other questions that I would like to ask. I have not had any official contact with the jw's in those 15 years. In my short time on this forum, I can see that things have changed a great deal since I left. I often read hints of these changes on various threads and would like to know more. I also read of things that I'd forgotten about or have only a limited recollection. This generates in me the desire to know more. The first time I ask about one of these issues, I get accused by someone as being a troll. In light of the warm welcome I received when I joined, it's a little hurtful.
skeeter1 writes:
Imagine if everyone in your family died today. That is how shunning feels. If you call them up, they will hang up the phone. Letters will be returned. It's devastating and has lead to suicides.
Too true, skeeter1. There's nothing worse than calling home and being told by your father "I have no son" and then being hung up on.
Big Tex

I started this thread to clarify in my mind exactly how the process of shunning works. Which is why I asked for a technical description of the way the policy is instituted.
A "technical description"? An odd phrase. I would have thought being born and raised amongst Jehovah's Witnesses, the process would have been fairly straight forward. My apologies to you that you did not understand how shunning worked.
Where did I ever, in any of my posts, state that I know nothing of disfellowshipping or disassociating?
You chose the title of this thread "How does shunning work?" Forgive me if you do not understand, but one of Jehovah's Witness who is disfellowshipped or disassociated, does indeed experience shunning. It is part of their punishment on the victim. Undoubtedly you were unaware of this in making this statement as shunning someone who has sinned against the Holy Spirit (you do know what that means?) requires any servant of Jehovah, i.e., an active Jehovah's Witness, to shun such a person, not acknowleding them, not even welcoming them into their home or offering them a meal. If memory serves.
For you to state you do not know how shunning works by definition means you do not know understand what disfellowshipping, and its ramifications, means as well. I would have thought the connection to be clear.
Well good for you! I haven't been a witness for 15 years, and I have purposely forgotten as much as I could about the single most painful thing in my life. Why do you judge me by your standards?
Indeed. Why so hostile? I am not judging. I am asking questions. Perhaps you do not understand the difference.
I do not know you, but frankly for someone using an anonymous pseudonym on an Internet website claiming to be a "third generation" Jehovah's Witness, as well as having been at the Australian branch for 3 years, as well as a "big shot" in local congregations of Jehovah's Witness does indeed imply more than an average level of understanding of how this particular cult works. It therefore logically follows you to have understood the consequences of disfellowshipping and the behavior of active Jehovah's Witnesses. It is also reasonable to believe you would have been familiar with marking, as it involes the exact same dynamic exact toward Witnesses who have not been officially kicked out. It therefore struck me as odd that you would start a thread claiming not to understand how shunning works.
I am trying to understand you and where you're coming from. Hence my reference to my own experience. There is no need to respond so angrily or so condescendingly.
This is the Internet, where anyone can be anything. All we have here on this board is our words. You choose to reveal as much, or as little, about yourself as you want. At the same time, those of us reading, and responding, to threads you create can only go by what you yourself say. If you leave gaps, please do not jump down someone's throat for asking you to fill those gaps in.
It is not only rude, but such behavior raises red flags.
There's nothing worse than calling home and being told by your father "I have no son" and then being hung up on.
Welcome to my world. I haven't seen or spoken to my father, or my sisters, in 20 years. The elder giving my mother's funeral talk deliberately left my name out. The congregation even posted ministerial servants acting as guards outside the Kingdom Hall to make sure I would not be there.
I say this at the risk of further hostility from you. But I do want to let you know, if you are legit, that this experience has been repeated over and over and there are many people on this board who have similiar experiences.
Shunning is a cruel practise. It often leaves scars no one sees. I believe it is important for non-Jehovah's Witnesses to understand how damaging shunning is on those who leave that cult.
Chris
oompa

as to you subject line............very, very well........oompa
tympan

Big Tex: I apologise to you if my post sounded hostile. Maybe I should have cooled down a little before I responded. I was a bit hurt at what I perceived as an attack on my motives.
It was never my intention to generate any controversy. It was simply a question that has occurred to me while reading other threads referring to shunning. Maybe I could have worded it a little better. Once again, I am sorry for my clumsy words.
Our responses to the hurt caused to each of us is obviously different. Mine has been to completely distance myself emotionally and mentally from the way I was bought up. As I said on another thread, it took me years and years to first admit to anyone that I was ever a jw. Even now, most of friends and colleagues no nothing of my upbringing and early part of my life. It's still not something that I feel in anyway comfortable talking about.
Thanks to all who have responded in such a detailed and considered manner to my initial question.
So, how does shunning work?
The final word to oompa: very, very well!!! Now that's gold! Thanks oompa.

How does shunning work?

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