by iknewit 18 Replies latest jw experiences
It's whatever they see fit to interpret it as. If they want to disfellowship you without giving you the out from a stagnant marriage, all they need do is call it "loose conduct", and get you for that without calling it adultery. That way, you will be out, but not free to remarry.
Which is a crock of s***, since the Washtowel Slaveholdery rules make it that much more likely for a marriage to go stagnant in the first place.
Actually, no sex has to take place at all, all that has to happen is that 2 people of the opposite sex (not married to each other) stay overnight unchaperoned and it is witnessed by 2 people preferably jws.
1972--bestiality and homosexuality not adultery.
w72 1/1 pp. 31-32 Questions From Readers ***
Do homosexual acts on the part of a married person constitute a Scriptural ground for divorce, freeing the innocent mate to remarry?—U.S.A.
Homosexuality is definitely condemned in the Bible as something that will prevent individuals from gaining God’s approval. (1 Cor. 6:9, 10) However, whether an innocent mate would Scripturally be able to remarry after procuring a legal divorce from a mate guilty of homosexual acts must be determined on the basis of what the Bible says respecting divorce and remarriage.
In the Sermon on the Mount Jesus Christ said: "Everyone divorcing his wife, except on account of fornication, makes her a subject for adultery, and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery." (Matt. 5:32) On a later occasion he told the Pharisees: "Whoever divorces his wife, except on the ground of fornication, and marries another commits adultery."—Matt. 19:9.
Thus "fornication" is seen to be the only ground for divorce that frees the innocent mate to remarry.
The Greek word for fornication is porneía. It can refer to illicit sexual relations between either married or unmarried persons. The ancient Greeks, in rare instances, may have understood this term to denote acts other than illicit sexual intercourse between a man and a woman. But the sense in which Jesus used the word porneía at Matthew 5:32 and 19:9 must be ascertained from the context.
It should be noted that in Matthew chapters 5 and 19 "fornication" is used in the restricted sense of marital unfaithfulness, or illicit relations with another person not one’s marriage mate. Just before bringing up the matter of divorce in the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus Christ pointed out that "everyone [married] that keeps on looking at a woman so as to have a passion for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart." (Matt. 5:28) Consequently, when he afterward alluded to a woman’s committing fornication, his listeners would have understood this in its relative sense, namely, as signifying a married woman’s prostitution or adultery.
The context of Matthew chapter 19 confirms this conclusion. On the basis of the Hebrew Scriptures, Jesus pointed out that a man and his wife became "one flesh," and then added: "What God has yoked together let no man put apart." (Matt. 19:5, 6) Now, in homosexual acts the sex organs are used in an unnatural way, in a way for which they were never purposed. Two persons of the same sex are not complements of each other, as Adam and Eve were. They could never become "one flesh" in order to procreate. It might be added, in the case of human copulation with a beast, two different kinds of flesh are involved. Wrote the apostle Paul: "Not all flesh is the same flesh, but there is one of mankind, and there is another flesh of cattle, and another flesh of birds, and another of fish."—1 Cor. 15:39.
While both homosexuality and bestiality are disgusting perversions, in the case of neither one is the marriage tie broken. It is broken only by acts that make an individual "one flesh" with a person of the opposite sex other than his or her legal marriage mate.
Do homosexual acts on the part of a married person constitute a Scriptural ground for divorce, freeing the innocent mate to remarry?—U.S.A.
Homosexuality is definitely condemned in the Bible as something that will prevent individuals from gaining God’s approval. (1 Cor. 6:9, 10) However, whether an innocent mate would Scripturally be able to remarry after procuring a legal divorce from a mate guilty of homosexual acts must be determined on the basis of what the Bible says respecting divorce and remarriage.
In the Sermon on the Mount Jesus Christ said: "Everyone divorcing his wife, except on account of fornication, makes her a subject for adultery, and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery." (Matt. 5:32) On a later occasion he told the Pharisees: "Whoever divorces his wife, except on the ground of fornication, and marries another commits adultery."—Matt. 19:9.
Thus "fornication" is seen to be the only ground for divorce that frees the innocent mate to remarry.
The Greek word for fornication is porneía. It can refer to illicit sexual relations between either married or unmarried persons. The ancient Greeks, in rare instances, may have understood this term to denote acts other than illicit sexual intercourse between a man and a woman. But the sense in which Jesus used the word porneía at Matthew 5:32 and 19:9 must be ascertained from the context.
It should be noted that in Matthew chapters 5 and 19 "fornication" is used in the restricted sense of marital unfaithfulness, or illicit relations with another person not one’s marriage mate. Just before bringing up the matter of divorce in the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus Christ pointed out that "everyone [married] that keeps on looking at a woman so as to have a passion for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart." (Matt. 5:28) Consequently, when he afterward alluded to a woman’s committing fornication, his listeners would have understood this in its relative sense, namely, as signifying a married woman’s prostitution or adultery.
The context of Matthew chapter 19 confirms this conclusion. On the basis of the Hebrew Scriptures, Jesus pointed out that a man and his wife became "one flesh," and then added: "What God has yoked together let no man put apart." (Matt. 19:5, 6) Now, in homosexual acts the sex organs are used in an unnatural way, in a way for which they were never purposed. Two persons of the same sex are not complements of each other, as Adam and Eve were. They could never become "one flesh" in order to procreate. It might be added, in the case of human copulation with a beast, two different kinds of flesh are involved. Wrote the apostle Paul: "Not all flesh is the same flesh, but there is one of mankind, and there is another flesh of cattle, and another flesh of birds, and another of fish."—1 Cor. 15:39.
While both homosexuality and bestiality are disgusting perversions, in the case of neither one is the marriage tie broken. It is broken only by acts that make an individual "one flesh" with a person of the opposite sex other than his or her legal marriage mate.
Homosexuality is definitely condemned in the Bible as something that will prevent individuals from gaining God’s approval. (1 Cor. 6:9, 10) However, whether an innocent mate would Scripturally be able to remarry after procuring a legal divorce from a mate guilty of homosexual acts must be determined on the basis of what the Bible says respecting divorce and remarriage.
In the Sermon on the Mount Jesus Christ said: "Everyone divorcing his wife, except on account of fornication, makes her a subject for adultery, and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery." (Matt. 5:32) On a later occasion he told the Pharisees: "Whoever divorces his wife, except on the ground of fornication, and marries another commits adultery."—Matt. 19:9.
Thus "fornication" is seen to be the only ground for divorce that frees the innocent mate to remarry.
The Greek word for fornication is porneía. It can refer to illicit sexual relations between either married or unmarried persons. The ancient Greeks, in rare instances, may have understood this term to denote acts other than illicit sexual intercourse between a man and a woman. But the sense in which Jesus used the word porneía at Matthew 5:32 and 19:9 must be ascertained from the context.
It should be noted that in Matthew chapters 5 and 19 "fornication" is used in the restricted sense of marital unfaithfulness, or illicit relations with another person not one’s marriage mate. Just before bringing up the matter of divorce in the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus Christ pointed out that "everyone [married] that keeps on looking at a woman so as to have a passion for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart." (Matt. 5:28) Consequently, when he afterward alluded to a woman’s committing fornication, his listeners would have understood this in its relative sense, namely, as signifying a married woman’s prostitution or adultery.
The context of Matthew chapter 19 confirms this conclusion. On the basis of the Hebrew Scriptures, Jesus pointed out that a man and his wife became "one flesh," and then added: "What God has yoked together let no man put apart." (Matt. 19:5, 6) Now, in homosexual acts the sex organs are used in an unnatural way, in a way for which they were never purposed. Two persons of the same sex are not complements of each other, as Adam and Eve were. They could never become "one flesh" in order to procreate. It might be added, in the case of human copulation with a beast, two different kinds of flesh are involved. Wrote the apostle Paul: "Not all flesh is the same flesh, but there is one of mankind, and there is another flesh of cattle, and another flesh of birds, and another of fish."—1 Cor. 15:39.
While both homosexuality and bestiality are disgusting perversions, in the case of neither one is the marriage tie broken. It is broken only by acts that make an individual "one flesh" with a person of the opposite sex other than his or her legal marriage mate.
Homosexuality is definitely condemned in the Bible as something that will prevent individuals from gaining God’s approval. (1 Cor. 6:9, 10) However, whether an innocent mate would Scripturally be able to remarry after procuring a legal divorce from a mate guilty of homosexual acts must be determined on the basis of what the Bible says respecting divorce and remarriage.
In the Sermon on the Mount Jesus Christ said: "Everyone divorcing his wife, except on account of fornication, makes her a subject for adultery, and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery." (Matt. 5:32) On a later occasion he told the Pharisees: "Whoever divorces his wife, except on the ground of fornication, and marries another commits adultery."—Matt. 19:9.
Thus "fornication" is seen to be the only ground for divorce that frees the innocent mate to remarry.
The Greek word for fornication is porneía. It can refer to illicit sexual relations between either married or unmarried persons. The ancient Greeks, in rare instances, may have understood this term to denote acts other than illicit sexual intercourse between a man and a woman. But the sense in which Jesus used the word porneía at Matthew 5:32 and 19:9 must be ascertained from the context.
It should be noted that in Matthew chapters 5 and 19 "fornication" is used in the restricted sense of marital unfaithfulness, or illicit relations with another person not one’s marriage mate. Just before bringing up the matter of divorce in the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus Christ pointed out that "everyone [married] that keeps on looking at a woman so as to have a passion for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart." (Matt. 5:28) Consequently, when he afterward alluded to a woman’s committing fornication, his listeners would have understood this in its relative sense, namely, as signifying a married woman’s prostitution or adultery.
The context of Matthew chapter 19 confirms this conclusion. On the basis of the Hebrew Scriptures, Jesus pointed out that a man and his wife became "one flesh," and then added: "What God has yoked together let no man put apart." (Matt. 19:5, 6) Now, in homosexual acts the sex organs are used in an unnatural way, in a way for which they were never purposed. Two persons of the same sex are not complements of each other, as Adam and Eve were. They could never become "one flesh" in order to procreate. It might be added, in the case of human copulation with a beast, two different kinds of flesh are involved. Wrote the apostle Paul: "Not all flesh is the same flesh, but there is one of mankind, and there is another flesh of cattle, and another flesh of birds, and another of fish."—1 Cor. 15:39.
While both homosexuality and bestiality are disgusting perversions, in the case of neither one is the marriage tie broken. It is broken only by acts that make an individual "one flesh" with a person of the opposite sex other than his or her legal marriage mate.
Strong circumstantial evidence, such as pregnancy or evidence
(testified to by at least two witnesses) that the
accused stayed all night in the same house with a person of
the opposite sex (or in the same house with a known
homosexual ) under improper circumstances, is acceptable.
blondie that is so disgusting and not even real far back in jw history.....you would think that could have been in 1872, not 1972........total stupidity........oompa
oh and iknewit.......if you were a hot chick i would probably like to demonstrate the answer to your question....!
Blondie is absolutely right. We went from "Homosexuality and Bestiality is not adultery" to "Spending the night in the same house with someone IS adultery". Talk about oscilating!
A few years ago I served on a Comitee, and the girl confessed she spent the night with her boyfriend, that they slept in the same house, in the same room and the same bed, but they didn't do it. Why did I believe her? Because she was not accused; she came to the elders out of her own initiative. Nobody would have ever found out. Why would she lie? After long sessions were the other two elders grilled her and made her cry, no confession came out, basically because there was nothing to confess.She hust felt bad for getting "to close to sinning".
Now, following the "strong circumstancial evidence" rule, there was basis for disfellowshipping, and since she wouldn't "confess", she was doomed.
I still don't know how I managed to convince those two gorillas that no action should be taken. My line of reasoning was that mitigating circumstances should have the same wieght as aggravating circumstances. And ultimately I told them that I could not see how we could DF a girl that voluntarily came to 'confess' that she shared the bed with her boyfriend, and that I would ask them to relieve me from serving in the comitee, but I would not participate in her being DF'd.
They settled for reproof (which I disagreed with, because in my eyes there was no sin). That was one of the many times I started to realize how silly all this sex-related rules are.
They'd have everyone stoned to death for walking around naked underneath their clothes if they could.
A few years ago I served on a Comitee, and the girl confessed she spent the night with her boyfriend, that they slept in the same house, in the same room and the same bed, but they didn't do it. Why did I believe her? Because she was not accused; she came to the elders out of her own initiative. Nobody would have ever found out. Why would she lie?
@WC - About 8 years ago my best friend was DF'd for this exact reason. He'd had a warning about some hanky panky with girls before so this was seen as disregarding the earlier warning. Him and his GF both denied anything had happened - I believed thm as he had no reason to deny it. Anyway he was DF and so was the girl as she wouldn't agree not to see him after he was DF. They got married whilst DF (thereby preventing all their friends and family attending), subsequently reinstated and are living happily ever after. Of course we have been DF'd since then.
I had a quick serch and found this from Watchtower 15th December, 1983
*** w83 12/15 27 When a Mate Is Unfaithful *** In such a situation, Jesus’ words on the subject have to be taken into account: “I say to you that whoever divorces his wife, except on the ground of fornication, and marries another commits adultery.” (Matthew 19:9) What does this mean? That fornication (which in the Bible sense includes adultery and gross sexual immorality such as homosexuality) canbreak up a marriage. Scripturally, the innocent partner has the right to divorce the guilty one and remarry without sin in God’s eyes.
Blondie posted above a QFR from 1972, that was a year after I became a JW. I recall about 2-3 years later that a sister in our Hall divorced her husband because he turned out to be homosexual.
Blondie also said
Actually, no sex has to take place at all, all that has to happen is that 2 people of the opposite sex (not married to each other) stay overnight unchaperoned and it is witnessed by 2 people preferably jws.
Also the experience of the sister who stayed with boyfriend and in same bed.
When I was young 19/20, at District conventions in a hotel, usually with another young JW brother who was a great friend.
We were tohave a room with twin beds. But there was a wrong booking and we got a room with a double bed. We thought rather than make a fuss we would take it. As we had shared rooms before we were used to seeing each other "undressed". So for those three nights we had the room we slept together. We never mentioned to anyone that this was what we were doing.
So in light of what was said above if word had got out would we have been accused of being homosexual or not.
I've always had the thought over the years that the other brother booked a double bed deliberately. Maybe he was expecting something more. Looking back he may just have got something more, who knows , in different circumstances.
What constitutes adultery for the WTS?
Adultery for the WTS is when they sought for and gained NGO status with the United Nations after decades of calling the rest of Christendom harlots for riding the back of the wild beast...
Their definitions of adultery, fornication, uncleanness and loose conduct are moot now since they've committed a bigger act of adultery and attempted to sweep it under the rug and refuse to confess their sins.
Oh my!! I've committed aldultery!! I've been thinking of ways to f*ck the WTS!!
