Might the Watchtower Society be preparing accept EVOLUTION soon?

by slimboyfat 30 Replies latest jw friends

  • slimboyfat
    slimboyfat

    I heard a public talk last week that was all about evolution and how it dishonours God, and it struck me just how out of date and confused many of the ideas presented were. The speaker used the old example of the giraffe's neck, but made the classic mistake of mixing up Darwin's theory of natural selection and Lamarckism by poking fun at the idea a neck stretched through use could be passed on to offspring. I wondered how an otherwise intelligent person (as this speaker is) could make such an elementary mistake.

    It occurs to me that the Society has been writing less and less against evolution in recent years, so there is less up-to-date ammunition for brothers to draw upon in talks. This is demonstrated most dramatically if you compare the old blue Creation book (from the 1980s) with the newer Creator book. (1998) The blue Creation book was full of old-style arguments against evolution, talking about speciation and breeds of dogs and so on. Belief in God in this book is tied inextricably with rejection of evolution by natural selection. The new Creator book on the other hand has a completely different focus. It hardly discusses evolution in trying to prove the existence of God. Instead it relies upon 1) an argument about God giving meaning to life 2) God being the cause of the big bang 3) God being the origin of life (about living cells and non-living matter rather than about the evolution of species) and 4) human consciousness as an argument for God.

    Not only has the main proof-for-God textbook totally changed from focussing on evolution to more general arguments for God, but articles in the magazines also discuss the process of evolution far less than they used to. Instead of in-depth refutations of natural selection, the Awake! magazine has taken to quoting the likes of Michael Behe, a promoter of intelligent design who nevertheless accepts much of evolution by natural selection as taught by the mainstream scientific community. So might the Witnesses be prepared to accept evolution in the near future?

    They have already staked out a position which is slightly more reasonable than the "young earth" creationists by stating that the earth is much older than 6000 years. This means they run into somewhat less trouble against various scientific disciplines than the more hardline Bible literalists do. Could they go one step further and accept evolution for all animals, but claim that humans are the only direct creation by God? Such a position would be fairly easy for them to harmonize with the Genesis account. In fact as I understand it that was the position of Charles Taze Russell and the Bible Students until the mid-to-late 1920s. They taught that God used evolution to produce all the species of animals, but that Adam and Eve were created directly by God around 6000 years ago.

    Personally I think such a move would be a masterstroke because, let's face it, only cranks and nutcases reject evolution these days. Silly arguments about giraffes' necks might have convinced in the 1950s or even the 1980s - but nowadays? Total rejection of evolutionary theory is beginning to look just a bit imbecilic. So they could solve that problem by accepting most of evolutionary theory, yet claim that God still had a role in starting life in the first place, and that humans are a special case, being created directly by God in the recent past, thus returning basically to the stance they took in the early part of the twentieth century.

    To recap why the Witnesses might/should come round to accepting evolution:

    1. They have been discussing creation versus evolution less and less in the literature, instead focussing on other proofs for God's existence such as the big bang and quoting intelligent design proponents who accept evolution such as Behe.

    2. They would be returning to basically the position the early Bible Students took, so it could be presented as a return to earlier wisdom in much the same way the flip-flop on the "superior authorities" was.

    3. It would be consistent with their desire to be seen as more reasonable than "young earth" creationists and fundamentalists generally.

    4. It could easily be harmonized with the Genesis account by saying that all animal species arose by natural selection (Gen 1), but humans were created directly (Gen 2).

    5. Surely at some point it just becomes too ridiculous to reject evolution by natural selection in its entirety, a more nuanced engagement with the evidence must be on the cards at some point.

    So what do you think, is it likely?

  • Caedes
    Caedes

    I agree, I think they have been taking a much lighter tone with evolution recently. I would think they could easily take the line that god just got the whole ball rolling and leave it at that.

  • Amha·’aret
    Amha·’aret

    No. Have you not seen the Feb Awake? Back to the usual out-of-context quoting and old school reasonings.

    They can't pick and choose who was created and who evolved because the proof shows humans came from animals so they'd have to ignore that huge amount of evidence. I've just written a pretty long and in-depth email on this subject to a jw who was an evolution-believing atheist before she got converted. So it's kinda fresh in my memory.

    I don't think they'll change their view on it. There's too much to unwrite in their publications if they do.

  • keyser soze
    keyser soze

    I'll believe that when I see it in print.

  • daniel-p
    daniel-p

    I think they are shifting over to the proper religious argument for belief in God--not by trying to disprove evolution (because they can't--the Creation book is evidence of that), but by appealing to people's desire to find meaning in their life. (Of course, it's a fallacy to think that someone who doesn't believe in God can find no meaning in their life, but that's another matter.) Arguments for "intelligent design" or whatever should rest on faith, not on science. Once you draw on science to support your belief in the supernatural you subject yourself to the same criteria science uses to analyze things, namely, empiricism. And that has very little to do with faith.

  • besty
    besty

    The Feb Awake! is not about evolution - it is about the 'wondrous planet earth' being proof of a Creator

    Yes there is logical fallacies and selective quoting in there, but there is no argument made against human evolution - rather the main point is the physical attributes of planet earth being just right for supporting life indicate intelligent design which is synonomous with their Creator God Jehovah.

  • Tuesday
    Tuesday

    I don't think it's possible, but I do think it's going to be less and less stressed over the years. I think the reason for this is that these magazines and books are presented at doors and studied with people before they become JWs. I know this is going to sound crass which I really don't wish it to sound like the way it's going to come out, however can you imagine a window washer or a mechanic presenting the arguments in the creation book to someone with a science background like say Ken Miller? Or maybe someone like Thunderf00t on youtube or DonExodus2? They would not have any clue about how to rebuff the quick rebuttals to these arguments plus if anyone was around in this situation it would make them seem very uneducated.

    Focusing on first cause is a good strategy though because there really is no known answer so they can stick to God of the Gaps quite effectively. Alot of scientists will actually concede this fact.

    JWs seem to have some pre-occupation with not looking bad in arguments, hence all the focus on straw men and red herrings to bring the conversation back to what they want to speak about. The sad fact is most JWs are not educated on the subject of evolution at all. If you want to test that ask a JW about evolution and see how many times they confuse Abiogenesis, first cause and evolution. Or how many times they'll say something like "Has anyone seen speciation?", "There's no fossils of half lizards, half birds found". So I think steering the focus away from talking about evolution is another way to avoid looking bad in debate.

  • jws
    jws

    I doubt they will drop it.

    But, maybe they are taking a step towards anti-science. Or at least seperating the fields of faith and science. Let science concentrate on it's stuff and let religions focus on religion.

    It sounds like they are making a faith-based argument. Saying we don't care what science says and we aren't even going to argue with them. You have to have faith in God. And if you do, by extention, God created everything.

    Perhaps that's because they can't win the argument and that more and more research points to evolution. Why drag science into the debate when you might happen to go look this stuff up and find out what science really has to say? Why not just ignore them entirely and hope they go away?

    The vunerability, however, is that presented with scientific information, they will be totally unprepared with any sort of comeback but faith. They will either have to bury their head in the sand and repeat "I believe in God" over and over or have their faith shook.

  • Awakened at Gilead
    Awakened at Gilead
    The Feb Awake! is not about evolution - it is about the 'wondrous planet earth' being proof of a Creator

    You actually reading that stuff besty? Careful... you might start believing it again... LOL

  • slimboyfat
    slimboyfat

    Great points folks but I can't reply right now because I am late for the meeting!

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