Well this didn't take long.

by BurnTheShips 51 Replies latest jw friends

  • Farkel
    Farkel

    Tuesday,

    : Maybe nationalizing banks isn't that bad of an idea anyway, maybe people could borrow against the taxes they paid? It seemed to work out well for George Washington when Alexander Hamilton did it.

    Thomas Jefferson said, "I fear banks more than any standing army." And he wasn't talking about Nationalized banks which would be much worse the privately owned banks. I would like anyone to show me ANY business the Government has run that was run better in the hands of Government than in private hands. Freddie Mac, Fannie Mae, Amtrak, TVA, WPA, the confiscated Mustang Ranch Nevada Whorehouse the IRS tried to run? I don't think so.

    Farkel

  • beksbks
    beksbks

    And he wasn't talking about Nationalized banks which would be much worse the privately owned banks.

    Why?

    I would like anyone to show me ANY business the Government has run that was run better in the hands of Government than in private hands.

    When Fannie and Freddie actually were run by the gov, they were profitable. It was the privatization that turned out to be disastrous. Medicare. The portion of Medicare that was recently privatised is sloppy and wasteful.

    There is a difference between the government running something, and running it well. That is what we should be focused on, not privatization, which takes all power from the people and puts it into the hands of individuals.

    Deregulation over the past 30 years has brought us to near ruin, as this fine fellow recently had to admit

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAH-o7oEiyY&feature=related

  • Farkel
    Farkel

    And he wasn't talking about Nationalized banks which would be much worse the privately owned banks.

    :Why?

    Privately owned banks are answerable to shareholders, and those shareholders can respond instanteneously when the banks get out of line. If the banks start to fail, shareholders dump their ownership and the banks either fail or make changes to get healthy again.

    When Nationalized businesses, including banks get out of line and start to fail, the Government just steals more private money from the public and dumps it back into those bad banks. Amtrak is a classic example of a Government trying to run what should be a private business. Government has NO business running businesses. Perhaps imposing some regulations, but not actually running those busineses. Private businesses fail all the time because of bad decisions. Government businesses are NEVER allowed to fail, no matter how rotten or corrupt they are. They are perpetuated by Government theft from private citizens that have no say in the matter, unlike businesses who have shareholders.

    I would like anyone to show me ANY business the Government has run that was run better in the hands of Government than in private hands.

    :When Fannie and Freddie actually were run by the gov, they were profitable. It was the privatization that turned out to be disastrous.

    They had a different role when they were run by the government between the Great Depression and 1968. It was the Clinton administration in 1999 that put heavy pressure on those Organizations to make mortgage loans to unworthy borrowers. They may have been privately owned, but the Government still pulled important strings and those organizations had to bow to Government demands. The Government created those Corporations and they could have wiped them out, too. They wouldn't be in the mess they are now in if do gooder Liberals in Government hadn't pressured them into make unsound business decisions for political gains. Private businesses make business decisions, NOT for political reasons or political gain, but for financial reasons. Government businesses make business decisions and put their political reaons above sound business reasons.

    If that argument cannot convince you the Government has no business running businesses, then just go home and re-read Marx and Engels and continue to live in a utopia that looks good on paper, but only on paper.

    : Medicare. The portion of Medicare that was recently privatised is sloppy and wasteful.

    Medicare fraud costs the taxpayers dozens of billions of dollars a year and that had been happening decades before any part of Medicare was privatized.

    :There is a difference between the government running something, and running it well.

    Yes, there is. They are mutually exclusive.

    : That is what we should be focused on, not privatization, which takes all power from the people and puts it into the hands of individuals.

    Right. We should focus on Communism which takes all power from the people and gives it to the Government, who are supposed to be servants of the people; individuals whose sole motivation is to stay in power and keep in power and take power from the people, and in which business profit takes second place to their keeping power.

    :Deregulation over the past 30 years has brought us to near ruin, as this fine fellow recently had to admit

    Of course, you have set up a rather flimsy strawman here, beks. Government regulation of some businesses is NOT the same thing as government Nationalization and ownership of private busineses.

    In the Soviet Union, ALL businesses were owned, managed and run by the Government, and we all know what a great model that was for the Soviet Economy. Or have you forgotten what history should have taught you?

    I know I am wasting my time here, so I will say no more. Barack thinks we can tax our way into prosperity. I think prosperity will only come when the Government gets the hell out of our lives and does only what the Constitution said it should do. Being a financial nanny for loser businesses, by theft of treasure from innocent citizens is not one of the things the Constitution charges the Government to do.

    Farkel

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    I'm not interested in the nationalization talk. After all, that's still rumor. I think the root of the issue is greed and short-sightedness. Bad loans were made out. The "paper wealth" turned out to be tissues and dreams; no substance. The tissue tower fell, and the world suffers.

    It's a knee-jerk reaction to nationalize everything. A domestic example would be mom and dad cleaning Joey's room because he did not clean up after himself. What did Joey learn? Nothing. And mom and dad are stuck with all the work.

    Better is to put firmer obligations and consequences in front of Johnny, and get him to clean up his mess himself. Now, in the short term this is longer and more painful, but the lesson in responsibility won't be lost.

    Then the wealth of the United States will be based on rock-solid results, not tissues and dreams.

  • Farkel
    Farkel

    jgnat,

    I do believe you crystalized the solution better than anyone else on this thread.

    I salute you. Now, if you could only convince your own Country to do the same thing!

    Farkel

  • UnConfused
    UnConfused

    So the private banks make monumentally stupid loans and bets on those loans and when the loans default they should have failed - but they are "too big" to be allowed to fail so they are bailed out. The car companies are "too big" to fail so they can make cars we don't want that are then too fuel ineffecient to drive - but they get bailed out.

    We needed to bail them out to save the economy, we are told.

    When did the free market become dependent on bailouts?

    So we now have a free market that needs to be proped up by the tax paying citizens.

    I fully agree with this protester:

  • Farkel
    Farkel

    unconfused,

    :So the private banks make monumentally stupid loans and bets on those loans and when the loans default they should have failed - but the are "too big" to be allowed to fail so they are bailed out. The car companies are too big to fail so they can make cars we don't want that are then too fuel ineffecient to drive - but they get bailed out.

    :We needed to bail them out to save the economy.

    :When did the free market become dependent on bailouts?

    :So we now have a free market that needs to be proped up by the tax payer.

    Precisely! Now THAT is a fine argument and the typos DON'T COUNT against it!

    Farkel, Charter Member of the Typo Class

  • StAnn
    StAnn

    "Can we all agree that most people want to do the right thing---"

    Jankyn, I don't believe that MOST people want to do the right thing. I think that most people want to do what is right short-term for their own bank account.

    Open your eyes and take a good look at the world you live in. Do you think pimps want to do what's right for their prostitutes? What about the over 50 % of spouses who cheat on their spouses? What about those idiots at AIG who used bailout money to throwa big party for the execs who ran AIG into the ground in the first place?

    It is naive to think most people want to do anything for anyone but themselves.

    Re: the stimulus package, the minute Pelosi started insisting that federally funded contraception would stimulate the economy, she should have been impeached and sent home. I mean, really, contraception as an economic stimulus? Are people that stupid? (I know it's been dropped but it shows how disingenuous this "stimulus" package is.) This is just a big government spending package, not a "stimulus" package. Besides, in this country, if you want free contraception, all you have to do is walk into your neighborhood Planned Parenthood office.

    Serena

  • StAnn
    StAnn

    BTW, why couldn't anyone else see how stupid it is to build an economy on debt?

    Can you build your household economy on debt? No! If you want to improve your home situation, you must trim the fat, stop spending, and sometimes even go without necessities.

    Sometimes we have to make hard sacrifices in the present if we want a stable future.

    Serena

  • UnConfused
    UnConfused

    Awww thanks for the approval Farkel, but you can save it for those who fawn over you.

    When I point out what a twit you are I'm also making an argument for those who you abuse that come here for help.

    Cheers

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