Forgiving traditionalists, offending Jews

by hamilcarr 23 Replies latest social current

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  BurnTheShips

  A man and his personal viewpoint on history shouldn't offend anyone. Why would the Jewish community be offended? I read the man's opinion and he isn't questioning the events at all - he only questioned the numbers. He wasn't minimizing the action at all. Is this why people are so hesitant to give an opinion? sammieswife .

  I can understand their sentiments, and it is sad that they are offended. You have to remember there is still a lot of antisemitism in Europe. A lot. And it seems to be worsening. This was probably not a good PR move for Benedict, however it was a good decision, in my opinion. There are hundreds of churches that were seperated from sharing communion with the rest of the body by the original excommunication.

  BTS
• 

  hamilcarr

  Lefebvre did not get excommunicated for any of these political positions.

  His political position didn't stand apart from his theological position. It shows how utterly conservative his followers are and gives some extra background to the controversy.
• 

  hamilcarr

  You have to remember there is still a lot of antisemitism in Europe. A lot. And it seems to be worsening.

  Are we talking about the same Europe?

  Nowadays there's only one religion Europeans are afraid of.

  Islamophoby.
• 

  hamilcarr

  Ironic coincidence:

  news of the move came just one day before the 50th anniversary of the announcement by Pope John XXIII of his intention to call Vatican II.

  Aggiornamento was necessary. No need to wind the clocks back.
• 

  BurnTheShips

  Not without consequences.

  http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/religion/4374784/Israeli-chief-rabbinate-cuts-ties-with-Vatican-over-Holocaust-row.html

  I think it would be good if Benedict made some conciliatory remarks.

  BTS
• 

  quietlyleaving

  bts there isn't a lot of anti-semitism in Europe. Please check your facts. Europe is confronted with and engaging with fundamentalism in all its shapes.
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  BurnTheShips

  There is a lot of antisemitism, and it is on the rise. Here is an exhaustive report. Several synagogues were firebombed and attacked in the last few months days in France as well.

  http://pewglobal.org/reports/pdf/262.pdf

  BTS
• 

  hamilcarr

  Does the report use the term antisemitism to describe unfavourable views of Jews?
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  BurnTheShips

  Rather than engaging in semantic sophistry, here is a report on the scientific survey:

  Antisemitism and Islamophobia rising across Europe, survey finds

  Antisemitism and Islamophobia are on the rise across Europe, according to a survey of global opinion released yesterday.

  In contrast to the US and Britain where unfavourable opinion of Jews has been stable and low for several years at between 7 and 9%, the Pew Survey of Global Attitudes found that hostile attitudes to Jews were rising all across continental Europe from Russia and Poland in the east to Spain and France in the west.

  The survey found that suspicion of Muslims in Europe was considerably higher than hostility to Jews, but that the increase in antisemitism had taken place much more rapidly.

  "Great Britain stands out as the only European country included in the survey where there has not been a substantial increase in antisemitic attitudes," the survey found.

  Antisemitism has more than doubled in Spain over the past three years, with a rise from 21% to 46%, the survey of almost 25,000 people across 24 countries found, while more than one in three Poles and Russians also had unfavourable opinions of Jews.

  In the same period antisemitism in Germany and France also rose - from 21% to 25% in Germany and from 12% to 20% in France among those saying they had unfavourable opinions of Jews.

  "Opinions of Muslims in almost all of these countries was were more negative than are views of Jews," analysts said. While Americans and Britons displayed the lowest levels of antisemitism, one in four in both countries were hostile to Muslims.

  Such Islamophobia was lower than in the rest of Europe. More than half of Spaniards and half of Germans said that they did not like Muslims and the figures for Poland and France were 46% and 38% for those holding unfavourable opinions of Muslims.

  People who were antisemitic were likely also to be Islamophobes. Prejudice was marked among older generations and appeared to be class based. People over 50 and of low education were more likely to be prejudiced.
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  hamilcarr

  Prejudice was marked among older generations and appeared to be class based.

  My observation is that unfavorable views of Jews and moslims may be linked to age, class and religious views. "Antisemitism" may be "on the rise" among older, lower class, theist embittered Europeans, but it definitely isn't among the middle-class agnostic youth.