by LockedChaos 46 Replies latest watchtower bible
My wife and I had a discussion
regarding Genesis 32
in particular versus 24 through 32
Her church this morning said that
Jacob was wrestling with GOD
HUH???
Anyone have any thoughtful insight
for this particular part of Genesis
Would like any and all comments
Hopefully Leo will comment too
I'll add later what I come up with
Thanks all in advance
Always sounded homo-erotic to me... but then my mind is always in the gutter.
Time of Jacob’s Troubles
The rain was so fine that it whirled as a mist in the cool air. A breeze tossed strands of the man’s hair and as the morning light passed through it, I saw burgundy highlights. The mist gathered in an aura around him and twinkles of gold stood suspended in mid air. It suddenly struck me that this was why artists had depicted them with halos. In the shadows of clouds, he became even more illuminated.
I thought of asking his name. It seemed rather awkward and impolite to continue a conversation without knowing his name at this point. But then, I thought of the story of Jacob. Had he not asked the name of his angel and received an infliction?
In my minds eye, I saw Jacob with his angel. The engagement was not one of physical wrestling; it was not a tug of war. “Wrestling” was a poor choice of words for what was intended as a figurative expression for negotiations. Jacob was in awe of the angel messenger, but even so, he expected an advantage for himself in cooperating with what the angel was proposing. He hung onto every word the angel spoke. Jacob and the angel negotiated the terms, a bargain was struck and a covenant was made.
Jacob may have had his good points, but from his youth he was a liar, a deceiver, and a cheat. He had a clever way about him. Jacob was no lover of truth. He proved this when he instead chose loyalty to his wicked mother, and his great transgression against the truth shaped the course of his life. It would not be the only time that Jacob would choose family loyalty over righteousness.
The act of the angel striking his thigh was symbolic in two ways. Because Jacob thereafter was lame, it became a physical manifestation of stumbling. His actions caused a great fall in mankind. The thigh is often used as a gentle word for reproduction aspects. Thus, the fruit of his loins carried the scars of his commitment to the program. Jacob’s dream of the ladder bridging heaven and earth was symbolic of his voluntary visit to the spacecraft where he underwent genetic probing and DNA reassignment experiments.
Perhaps this is when he received his knowledge of animal husbandry. He was very clever in using this to his advantage when he struck a bargain with his father-in -law for flocks and herds. Through the “secrets” of genetics revealed to him by the angels, he was able to breed a stronger stock which he kept for himself.
Jacob’s Ladder! “The Ladder” was the NATO code name of a drug used to increase aggression in soldiers. It had been administered to US soldiers without their knowledge during chemical warfare trials in the Vietnam era. Others had discovered this truth about Jacob as well! In their own way they had tried to tell us in subtle messages.
Why were these angel creatures doing this to humans? Was it some revenge plot on our Creator? Was it out of jealousy toward us? We were not experimental mistakes! The ones who created us had created these beautiful angels beings before us. Our creators were experts! It was this angel race who had plummeted us into destruction! A war broke out in heaven…had these creatures hurt our creators? Had we, in our selfishness, not understood this was why they could not get back to us?
And what was the crux of Jacob's covenant with the angel? He had allowed genetic experimentation and the mixing of alien blood into human lineage.
I felt an alarming sense of caution come over me. I would have to be very diligent to keep my guard up around this creature. Not for a moment could I let my hand tip. I didn’t care what his name was. It was only the civility of etiquette that even prompted me to consider asking. Truly, though, I did not want to even be that familiar with this creature. He was here for a reason and I did not know why.
“Do you drink coffee?” I asked.
“Yes, thank you. Black.”
“I’ll be right back,” I said, grateful to find an escape for a few minutes.
Perhaps his presence signaled that the time of Jacob’s Troubles were about to be upon us. We were the terminal generation; the generation of destruction. "He will make a full end of all nations." It would be a time when every human would have to decide his ultimate fate. They would each one have to ask themselves the question that Jacob asked: Loyalty to Mother, or love of truth?
“How does a damn hologram drink coffee?” I muttered to myself as I reached for a cup.
I don't have any amazing insights, but it's worth pointing out that right after Jacob struggled with this "angel" (whoever he was), his name was changed to Israel which means "he struggles with God".
So who won? Did Jacob kick his ass?
Elsewhere: I think Jacob won - he wouldn't let the angel go until it blessed him.
Locked chaos: the best bet would be to get a few translations and see what they have to say & compare it with the greek version. See what you come up with there.
A human is stronger than an angel?
Nowhere does it say that he was fighting with an angel.
Whoever it was he was fighting with didn't even know his name, so if it was God, it wasn't the All Knowing, All Mighty dick god head my father tried to scare me with.
Whoever it was he was fighting with had to use a magic trick to beat him after wrestling with him all night. What a wimp.
It's no wonder I grew up warped after having this mumbo jumbo bombarding me.
Cheers
Chris
The Angel was just playing with him....I would rather wrestle a Mermaid all night long!
Here is a portion of Genesis 32 from The Message Bible.
Genesis 32:24-25 But Jacob stayed behind by himself, and a man wrestled with him until daybreak. When the man saw that he couldn't get the best of Jacob as they wrestled, he deliberately threw Jacob's hip out of joint.
26 The man said, "Let me go; it's daybreak."
Jacob said, "I'm not letting you go 'til you bless me."
27 The man said, "What's your name?"
He answered, "Jacob."
28 The man said, "But no longer. Your name is no longer Jacob. From now on it's Israel (God-Wrestler); you've wrestled with God and you've come through."
29 Jacob asked, "And what's your name?"
The man said, "Why do you want to know my name?" And then, right then and there, he blessed him.
30 Jacob named the place Peniel (God's Face) because, he said, "I saw God face-to-face and lived to tell the story!"
31-32 The sun came up as he left Peniel, limping because of his hip. (This is why Israelites to this day don't eat the hip muscle; because Jacob's hip was thrown out of joint.)
I suggest you look up christophany or theophany.
Peace and love on your search.
Sylvia
