Watchtower Propaganda

by JosephAlward 78 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  biblexaminer

  When Adolf Hitler tortured bible students, and then some of these students signed the paper renouncing their faith, or did so orally, would you, Alward, then tell me that Hitler was not pleased?

  Would you tell me that Hitler did not gain what he wanted from these ones?

  Perhaps you, Alward, would suggest to this board that "well the ones who signed DIDN'T REALLY renounce their faith"...

  Perhaps you, ALWARD, would suggest that these ones who capitulated didn't REALLY capitulate, but that the were just trying to USE Adolf, ...sure, to make him BELIEVE that they were giving in, but that they were trying to fool him so that Hitler wouldn't have them killed!

  Alward, you are so full of crapola that you stink from here.
• 

  JosephAlward

  BibleExaminer,

  Nobody from the Watchtower signed a statement falsely affirming that they accepted the goals of the United Nations.

  Now, for the rest of the folks who have been paying attention to this thread, I think you've started to repeat your arguments, or the arguments of others made earlier; I know I've been repeating mine, so I think it's time to end this thread. If any of you feel that you absolutely must have satisfaction and have me respond to any of your questions, I will oblige you and try to do so. Think about them for a while, and if you still want to engage me in this matter, I will accommodate you. However, when people begin shouting (all those exclamation points) and swearing at cyber-personas, instead of patiently and intelligently presenting points of view, it shows that they've either lost the ability to communicate effectively, or they never had it in the first place; either way, it's time to take a breath and try regain one's dignity.

  Further discussion on the UN matter is no doubt a complete waste of everyone's time. I think we all know that NOTHING of consequence is going to come of the Guardian's revelation, because the whole episode is too easily explained away by elders who know that most JWs have neither the sophistication nor the inclination to understand that the Watchtower may have betrayed their principles. The following is what I imagine they have been saying--if anyone has been asking (which I doubt):

  We registered for a library card and later found out that the Department of Public Information thought that acceptance of the card meant we accepted the UN's principles! We were horrified when we learned this, and we immediately asked to be taken off their list of organizations not affiliated with the government. Furthermore, some disfellowshipped apostates think that the articles we wrote showing how the UN was failing in its mission to bring us world peace meant that we were spreading UN propaganda, but they're just upset because Jesus is going to kill them at the Armageddon.

  Virtually every one of the faithful JWs will believe it, right?

  Thus, what I or anyone else writes about this will not matter in the slightest. All that is happening is a lot of angry former JWs are being made even angrier by me. It's time to turn our attention to endeavors which will be more productive, don't you think?

  Joseph F. Alward
  "Skeptical Views of Christianity and the Bible"

  * http://members.aol.com/jalw/joseph_alward.html
• 

  hawkaw

  Trevor, you said:

  I beg to differ, by the way. I would challenge that just about everyone on this forum believes that the Watchtower Society **DID** agree to accept the aims and goals of the UN. I for one do.

  But guess what Joe? I also know that when the Watchtower Society did this, they were lying through their collective teeth!! That is not to say the wts did not offer token support to the UN; they very clearly did. But of course, this was only token support - lip service as I said previously. But support none the less.

  When the wts "supported" the UN, did they "mean" it? Not a chance, but they still did the deed, and that's what counts.

  Those are my thoughts exactly. Except for one final thought. They entered into this "partnership" voluntarily. They had to voluntarily solicit in writing the DPI before the DPI would respond to them. They knew what the rules were before going down the path to hell. How else would they have known to write DPI.

  Notice how Joe isn't talking about the lying going on in the WTS letters anymore.

  Oh, BTW I am not an ex-JW or a JW and BTW this is not a waste of time.

  Also Joe may want to kill the thread & I think I did at one time too but keeping this thread and others like it alive helps people focus on the matter and get educated in the matter. And of course it shows just how stupid Joe's arguments are.

  hawk
• 

  Trevor Scott

  Joseph,

  I hope my two exclamation marks didn't scare you off...

  You said: "Nobody from the Watchtower signed a statement falsely affirming that they accepted the goals of the United Nations."

  Really? Can you prove that Joseph? Of course not. So why state it as fact? This statement is indicative of your faulty reasoning. You simply state what you believe to be fact, as fact.

  Secondly, the wts need not have signed *anything* to be guilty as charged. As I said before, they are condemned by their actions, not their words. My goal is to convict the Watchtower Society, not in a court of law, but in the hearts and minds of individual Jehovahs Witnesses. Your failure to understand this shows how poorly you comprehend the Watchtower world.

  You said: "I think you've started to repeat your arguments, or the arguments of others made earlier"

  I'd suggest the reason persons are repeating their arguments is that you’re skirting them.

  You said: "Further discussion on the UN matter is no doubt a complete waste of everyone's time. I think we all know that NOTHING of consequence is going to come of the Guardian's revelation"

  Well your argument is certainly a waste of everyone's time, as I suggested several posts prior. But the UN matter itself is of great import, and when you suggest otherwise, you again demonstrate for everyone here how little you really know about the wts and jws.

  TS,

  Did the Watchtower Society "support" the scarlet beast of Revelation?
  : http://www.geocities.com/watchtowersociety/beast.htm
• 

  sapo

  Is this perhaps* a new form of theocratic strategy? --Put up a Christian Skeptics board and then have the board owner come and split hairs over the accuracy of the WT/UN deception—causing those who have been researching these finds to question themselves (or sidetrack) and lurking JW's can think "WOW, even a worldly person doubts that the WT was deceptive".

  But Alward is right about WT wording; the Watchtower only speaks in innuendos now. Outright blasting of governments, human rights organizations, and other religions changed when they decided they needed these organizations to help perpetuate themselves in other countries. Some of their words are understood one way by the JW and another way by others. Here’s my favorite (paraphrasing)--Christians will be hated for their allegiance to God. JW's, who believe they are the only true Christians and all other denominations are part of Christendom, understands that reference refers only to them, but non-Witnesses assume it means all Christian religions. So these UN articles were likely* seen by the JW as an acknowledgment of a temporary, ineffective solution to problems, not a cure, yet the articles were palatable enough for the UN. But I don’t see how their UN exiting lies can be construed as any thing else.

  Here's a more accurate summation: The WT bailing out of their UN association, along with their lie about associating for the sole purpose of getting library access along with their lie about not knowing what that UN association implied until it was pointed out by "opposers" no less, is most likely* to deter a mass exodus similar to the mass exodus that occurred after 1975 that was brought on by their years of errant "interpretation of scripture" before 75. Perhaps* these lies are also to deter potential lawsuits from those affected by following the letter of the WT law if they start to realize that the various changes in bible understanding in the last few years –acceptable blood fractions, voting, alternative military service-- was not determined by Holy Spirit inspired WT holy men as the WT claims but by what governmental gains were to be had.

  * Watchtower approved loophole words
• 

  Trevor Scott

  Sapo,

  That's funny - Joseph Alward as a troll... lol.

  You said: "Some of their words are understood one way by the JW and another way by others."

  I completely agree. The wts have become masters of "subtle and clever" wording - the very thing they accuse their enemies of (which is itself a classic propaganda tactic).

  Here's another example, from the wt official response to the UN scandal:

  "Still, the Criteria for Association of NGOs--at least in their latest version--contain language that we cannot subscribe to. When we realized this, we immediately withdrew our registration."

  Do they actually say the original criteria for association did not contain damning language? Nope. All they said was that the latest version did, which is true. But because of the clever wording, jws are led to believe the criteria for association only recently changed - unbeknownst to the wts - prompting them to bail. Yet we know from the '92 press release and the Hoeffel letter that the original requirements were equally damning.

  When dealing with the wts, it's important to look at what's not said in addition to what is.

  TS,

  Did the Watchtower Society "support" the scarlet beast of Revelation?
  : http://www.geocities.com/watchtowersociety/beast.htm
• 

  funkyderek

  Watchtower website, search under UN, here's the first result:
  http://www.watchtower.org/library/g/2000/12/8/diagram_01.htm

  --
  "The world is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion." - Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason, 1794.
• 

  Dino

  Sapo!!!

  I totally forgot to welcome you to the board!

  I so enjoyed your post on the other page and we appreciate your research as well.

  Thanks again, Dino
• 

  sapo

  Hi Dino,
  I can’t say I’m much of a researcher. I’m learning this stuff from ya’ll as it unfolds. Thanks for the welcome!

  Hi Trevor
  you said:
  When dealing with the wts, it's important to look at what's not said in addition to what is.

  Yes, that’s one of those fine points that can be easily overlooked.

  Sapo