Are JWN posters considered apostate?

by rmt1 16 Replies latest jw friends

  • AllTimeJeff
    AllTimeJeff

    Actually, if I would be permitted to say this, not exactly.

    Many JW's come to sites like this and others. That is why JW's consistently put out reminders not to go on these sites. If one says they are talking with other JW's (its all how you frame it) then its not an automatic sanction. It just puts you in line for the activity elders like best: Counsel.

    Its all in how you frame it. However, I know for a fact that the JW leadership is well aware of their flock "associating" on the internet. So I wouldn't say you would be labelled an apostate automatically for coming here.

  • TheSilence
    TheSilence

    5 years ago my dad was given 6 months to live. Now, through some amazing manuevering on his part, and probably the most concerted desire to prove everyone wrong that I have ever seen, he is still alive today. However, I think he is probably at the end of of his battle at this point and I don't anticipate he will have much longer than another year, if that. So, to a degree, I can relate to your situation.

    The difference is that I have had contact with him throughout my life, as stilted as it may have been. But I was never baptized, so while we don't have a great relationship and there are a lot of issues... I do have some form of a relationship with him because I am not disfellowshipped.

    My dad has no idea I post here. I would never go out of my way to tell him that I do. I prefer that he doesn't throw his religious ideals and decisions in my face and I therefore offer him the same respect. I would not, however, lie to him if it were to come up.

    Here's what it comes down to for me: regret. My dad is going to die. That is a fact, whether it happens tomorrow or 50 years from now. I can't control my dad's thoughts, decisions, or actions. I can only control mine. So rather than react to his thoughts, decisions, and actions I choose to act in the way that I feel I can best live with and least regret in the long term. That means I'm open to a relationship with him, but I won't beat my head into a wall making it happen. The choice is his. It means I will not judge him or his religious decisions, whether or not he judges me and mine. It means I will do my best to be a good daughter and be there for him, even if he hasn't always been for me. Because the fact of the matter is that no matter who he is or what he does he is my dad and I love him. And I don't want to live with the regret of bad decisions.

    So, no one can really tell you the best course of action to take. The best course of action to take is the one that will allow you to live with the least amount of regret once he is gone. For some people the least amount of regret would mean laying it all out on the table. For some it would mean letting it go and doing whatever had to be done to have a relationship at the end. And there are a lot of places in between those two options. You are the one who has to decide what your priorities are, what is important to you, and what will allow you the most peace later in life.

    I guess that's not much help... but it's a tough place to be, and in the end you're the one who can make the best decision for you.

    Best of luck,

    Jackie

  • TheSilence
    TheSilence

    Just a bump because I would like to hear more opinions on this myself.

    Jackie

  • El Kabong
    El Kabong

    Religion should never come before the Family. Ever.

  • jws
    jws

    Someone with some life experience please advise me where I am losing the high ground. If they were to call me on this particular board, or """"apostacy"""" in general, where would I gain the high ground by dissembling or lying by omission? To my mind, I would strengthen my father's faith if he had the unfortunate satisfaction of sticking to his guns in refusing to see his apostate son.

    Your father is dying and you're worried about the high ground???? Strengthening your father's faith by letting him refuse to see you? Man, that's twisted.

    You're making this all about you. About your pride, about your stubborness. This is about your father first, then you.

    Play along with him. Placate him. Make him feel good to the best of your ability. Letting him continue to shun you isn't going to make him happy. What? He's supposed to admire you for taking your stand and feel good that he can take his?

    Don't let him know about your posting on this board. I don't know how old your father is. But I do know that elderly people don't generally surf the internet. And loyal, stubborn JWs don't visit apostate sites. And if your dad is a bit younger, he's probably still not surfing this site. The odds are remote that he knows you post here.

    He might wonder whether you are in contact with "apostates" over the internet. My dad once told me he heard there were a lot of apostates where I live and asked whether I was talking to them. I hadn't met any ex-JWs. My "apostacy" was due to Ray Franz's book before I even moved here and what I read on the internet before I ever joined this board. They hear these things. They assume you might have been lured away by the internet. Don't confuse that with any specific knowledge that you are on this particular board. Don't admit to as soon as he mentions apostates on the internet. That doesn't mean he knows. rmt1 could be anybody unless you've mentioned specifics about your town or used real names.

    You may have been fed up with the lies you were taught and don't want to lie further, but what good does it do to upset your dad on his deathbed?

    I've gone through similar things. I faded. I was never DA or DF. My dad knows I have "apostate" thinking. We've even discussed some of it, but it usually leads to him threatening to not talk to me anymore. Don't play "chicken" with your dad to see who will back down. When it's your last time with him, it's not worth it.

    I'm stubborn too. I wanted to really get into it with my dad at times, but held my tongue. It infuriated me when he wrote me a letter trying to guilt me to come back. After several re-writes to tone things down, I sent him back a "thanks, but no thanks" letter that was (in my opinion) peaceful enough. Among other things, I stressed that I did still study the Bible, that there's one mediator between God and man, Jesus, and that I still believed many JW teachings. I didn't get specific and I didn't try to argue doctrine or show any sort of case against JWs. I stressed that I consider myself a good man, married, faithful to my wife, raising wonderful kids, don't smoke, hardly drink, etc. There's no need to tell him anything further.

    I'm not saying you should do the same thing. The point is I said what I could to give my dad hope. His sincere hope is that I come back to the JWs. And if not, that I am at least the type of person to survive the big A. At different times, JWs have changed their opinions on who will and won't be saved. At least a few years ago, I think the opinion was that non-JWs might be coming along too.

    What exactly does your family know about you? Or might they know? And why are you so concerned about this board? It seems to me there's more to the story you haven't mentioned.

  • undercover
    undercover

    Well, you've posted about 120 times in about 4 years. While JWs in general would be afraid of someone who dared to read, let alone post, on such a site, your activity on this board isn't to the level that some others are in.

    I'm like you, I'm neither DFd or DAd...and my being on this site is none of their business. Very few people know who I really am. I've managed all these posts and time without being found out...all because I'm careful about what I post and I don't go around telling anyone who sympathizes with JWs.

    My advice is the same as some of the others...don't tell anyone who would take offense at your visiting or posting on an "apostate" board. It's none of their business.

    And if it's important to be able to spend time with your family during this stressful time without feeling too hypocritical, take a break from the board. We'll be here when you're ready to come back.

  • sass_my_frass
    sass_my_frass

    Yeah I'd say it would be a pretty sweeping judgment on just about everybody here. If you want a relationship with your father it would probably be better off if he didn't know that you were here.

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