registering for Selective Service at age 18?

by halcyon 18 Replies latest social current

  • mustang
    mustang

    I see where Cameo is "coming from" here. I will post some detail on that presently. But the short answer is that those arguments would be held to be of "little or no merit" and considered specious by the court. I used CONVENTIONAL arguements and won; I do not trust that the other untried arguments would have been successful.

    First level of SSS is basically the Local Board: read that an "old-boys" network of appointees. They are not well educated on the options, and see only "do your patriotic duty". For any exceptions, they lean on the Senior Clerk's advice. She reads her manuals and calls up her "chain of command" for advice.

    That gets you to the State level whcih deals directly with the DOJ. These people handle the exceptions and it gets real: the FBI investigates you immediately.

    I am examining Cameo's suggestions: but they are not practical.

    And WTS won't touch them with a 10-foot pole. WTS pulls enough bizarre legal stuff that they know when to draw the line.

    And if you lose with this arguement, it could backfire on WTS. They won't even mention such strategies. If you come up with them yourself, you are on your own.

    This is all "lost art": SSS action is usually 3-4 years every 3-4 decades.

    Mustang

  • cameo-d
    cameo-d
    I am examining Cameo's suggestions: but they are not practical.

    Mustang,

    While I realize your ego gets in the way and you have some complex in needing to be the "final authority", I can assure you that my words come from legal descriptions, procedures, and requirements. The documentation can be found.

    Proverbs 18:13 He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him.

    It is very simple.

    Because of what appeares to be lawful commands on the surface, many citizens, because of their respect for what appears to be law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their rights due to ignorance.

    As far as this "ignorance", it is only because the details have not been fully disclosed to us, the general public. The state cannot give you the knowledge of sovereignty because it would mean their demise. Also the details have not even been made "largely available" within the public domain.

    I have no intention of "arguing" with you. Hopefully others will read this and investigate it for themselves instead of relying on a nay-sayer who wants to be "the legal man of the hour".

    And btw, I would like to make it very clear that this revolves around more than just a social security card. If you have US citizen checked on your birth certificate, your parents unknowingly delivered you into a government trust and collaterialized you against the National Debt.

    There are many changes that have to be made in order to reclaim your sovereignty and unalienable birthrights.

  • mustang
    mustang

    Cameo,

    There are a few people in prison that have tried the same things on Taxation (Irwin Schiff comes to mind). You have been noted as being on the "fringe" in many things from your first appearances.

    I appreciate "sparring" with you and debating But obviously we have differences.

    I have successfully appeared at a Federal level and used the techniques I have described. I have been arrested in the circumstances that I describe. I have read and been issued legal documents from the WTS that were restricted in distribtution. There are things that are ongoing of which I cannot speak.

    I am, as we speak, investigating a form of what you describe, but not on the same subject. If it is viable, I may indeed put it into practice. I am doing ongoing AND ACTIVE participation in these matters. I could reverse myself, but IT WOULD BE FROM THE VOICE OF EXPERIENCE.

    I ask you, in counter, have you "opted out of Social Security"? Do you have such a passport or citizenship paperwork as you describe? Are you willing to put your person, future or other on the line for what you assert?

    Have you done any of the things of which you speak?

    PERHAPS what you are saying could work. I am doing two things: explaining what works, based on experience and explaining WTS, based again on experience (6 decades of exposure to them).

    Again, I can point out that WTS WILL TAKE THE KNOWN, CONVENTIONAL PATH and not use untried or controversial means. Even if what you say was a practical strategy, WTS could not take the chance on the results going astray. It would backfire on them: the heavens knows that they use enough "left field techniques", without adding any more. You don't add additonal risks, unnecessarily.

    My discussion of WTS practices is based on "being there", having relatives in the HQ and exposure, past and present, to "standard legal practice".

    My advisors made it abundantly clear that they were taking chances just as much as I was: they could be liable for Obstruction of Justice (or other) if it turned out that they had exerted undue influence over me.

    Our exposure made us rub shoulders with the FBI, Policemen, Lawyers, Judges, courtroom clerks and the like. You learn things from just standing there, at times.

    I respectfully submit that you are just a "theorist" and inexperienced (we all noticed your frequent lack of knowledge of things JWish).

    I further observe and comment politely that it appears that you lack the strength of your convictions, if you have not actually and physically done the things you speak of.

    With all due respect, pointing to your flaws as you may have done in kind, Mustang, @ your service,

    Esse quam videri

  • mustang
    mustang

    Cameo,

    Though disagreeing with you, I respectfully submit:

    While I realize your ego gets in the way and you have some complex in needing to be the "final authority",

    You wish: I have work to do; discussion of this has been requested by more than one other group. Neither of the above is the case: there is just a lot to relate, massive amounts of things to be said. Every item mentioned triggers more details. This is a "practice area". You mistake being busy for your own problems.

    You are funny and entertaining, BTW

    I can assure you that my words come from legal descriptions, procedures, and requirements.

    The documentation can be found.

    Most people show their sources: it is customary to do so when challenged. Oh, well, more indication of inexperience with group discussions.

    You constantly have the drive to push your agenda onto anything else that is said. That is by using the SQUARE PEG INTO A ROUND HOLE technique.

    I have no intention of "arguing" with you.

    Fine: don't argue at all; sound policy. I'll continue on without you.

    You're driving off topic anyway: If you want to discuss SOVEREIGN CITIZENSHIP, start a topic on it. Telling off someone ON TOPIC for disagreeing with your OFF TOPIC AGENDA violates the basic rules of debate.

    To answer the question you brought up (more or less close TO TOPIC) of the "citizen of heaven" argument as a defense:

    The "citizen of heaven" argument is distinct from the discussion of Sovereign Citizenship.

    The "citizen of heaven" argument that you suggested was tried, early on, and it lost.

    The "citizen of heaven" argument is actually touched on in the "standard method" (from the textbook). And the reason that the "citizen of heaven" argument is considered, is that while it is deemed irrelevant for your intended argument (jurisdictional conflict based on citizenship), it goes towards establishing, that the appellant (you are on appeal by now, following your logic) is religious.

    Under the "citizen of heaven" argument you are POSSIBLY qualified for either the I-O, I-A-O or IV-D Classifications [Conscientious Objector or Minister] by establishing your ministry background. But the "citizen of heaven" argument is far from all you need to establish your "burden of proof" that you are a minister. (and that is what this is all about.)

    If the "citizen of heaven" argument were to be admitted at all, under other circumstances, it would be relegated to Church Law. Most objects of Church Law are ruled out from consideration under Secular law. This is because of the legal doctrine of Ecclesiastical Abstention. (Ironically: this is part of the Church Law Shield which protects religion).

    The audience that must be convinced (SSS board, judges, prosecutors) will not admit the "citizen of heaven" argument to be a disqualifying feature due to citizenship.

    Your tribunal now tells you to "move on": you are still viewed as a citizen of the USA, subject to the SSS rulings.

    You will have to have more and different arguments. The "citizen of Heaven" argument has not even scratched the surface of your burden of proof.

    That is because you must have further proof of the ministry than the "citizen of heaven" argument: works are required. Pioneering, being a servant, full-time ministry are the usual requirements. And that is exactly how I won my case.

    If you persist in pushing the "citizen of Heaven" argument beyond this point, you will lose and perhaps your sanity will be questioned. A COMPETENCY HEARING is not the desired objective here. You can add Mental Insufficiency to Sovereign Citizenship as undesired or dubious defense strategies.

    Mustang, @ your service

  • mustang
    mustang

    Attached is a table of the Selective Services System Classifications. It is current as of 1964, when the booklet containing this was published. I recently had the discussion with others about when the Lottery was in effect: we all agreed that we were subjected to the Lottery in late 1970 to early 1971.

    As I recall, the Lottery situation was to allow young men to plan their future: you knew you would go into service and planned for that; or you could plan school or other without an unexpected interruption. To that end, if you were in the eligible I-A Classification, you were liable for 1 year of exposure under the Lottery arrangement. A random drawing of dates was held and your birthday corresponded to your Lottery position.

    As I recall, after you had served your year of I-A/Lottery exposure, you were reclassified to I-H. I-H was a new classification created for the circumstances @ hand. It would have to be added to the tables that I am posting

    Mustang

  • cameo-d
    cameo-d

    You are making this sound more complicated than need be.

    The problem is in that a dual citizenship is claimed. In spite of claiming to be a "citizen of God's Kingdom" one would still be a US citizen and as such, would be subject to the requirements of military and laws.

    If US citizenship were renounced, and proper steps were taken to put this in force, one would then claim sovereign citizenship. Once Sovereign, one could stand on the Bill of Rights which guarantees "freedom of religion". Then, you could claim citizenship of Heaven or Hell or Purgatory...if that is your religion.

    I would neither recommend nor advise one to consider a motion to do this without having complete information of the ramifications.

    Conscientious Objector status gives you the "right to refuse to kill". It does not get you out of military obligation. Many JWs who have refused to go to war were given the choice to do other jobs which were military related, such as working in non-combatant jobs. They were advised that their choices were a "conscience matter". Most refused. Even while incarcerated, some were given the opportunity to participate in military related work for small pay such as laundry, sewing military uniforms, etc.

    To not register with selective service is a felony. However, this list is used to recruit potential personnel. The mandatory armed services was abolished in 1973.

    Today, we have privatized armed forces. Should there ever be internal conflict within a nation, privatized forces made up of varied nationalities could be much more effective in their duties of combat. Think about it. It's here.

  • wifibandit
  • Terry
    Terry

    The biggest mistake I ever made was registering for the draft when it WAS compulsory.

    If I had a time portal, I'd go back and NOT register.
    There are no do-overs in life, unfortunately.

  • dropoffyourkeylee
    dropoffyourkeylee

    It was part of their strategy to get the young JWs a minister classification. Their chance of getting the classification was almost zero if they had not registered as the law required.

    aside, when you apply for financial aid at college you have to prove you have registered.

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