registering for Selective Service at age 18?

halcyon

Every year this news item was published in the KM. But I've noticed that I've never heard of it anywhere else, ever.

How do most young men in the world know that they're supposed to do this? Who tells them?

mustang

Every country requiring a military obligation will of course, publish that mandate. How they do it is likely varied across the landscape.

I've recently been discussing this subject, due to my experience in fighting the Selective Service System [SSS] in court. I have heard of instances where young men in the USA ignored these pronouncements and went and "joined up". "I did what I was supposed to, that takes care of my military obligation, right?".

OK: you took care of the military obligation (one law) but not ALL OF THE LEGALITIES. Sometime in the future the FBI shows up @ the door of this young man's military CO (Commanding Officer; as opposed to CO, Conscientious Objector). I had to make the distinction between the two CO's in my recent discussions.

The FBI Agent readily verifes and accepts that the soldier is real and is who is being sought. He leaves the CO to straighten out paperwork which must be rotued to the SSS Local Board where the young man was supposed to make an appearance or at least forward some filled out forms.

There is little doubt that the soldier got a lecture or two.

This points out that SSS notification is somewhat sloppy here in the US. It may be about the same in other countries. I can also feature countries that make it clear in no uncertain terms and do not have a sense of humor about the subject.

I'm little surprised: SSS is used about 3 or 4 years at a time and then goes back on the shelf for 3 or 4 decades.

Mustang

cameo-d

According to what I have found, you are not obligated for selective service if you claim Sovereign Citizenship instead of US citizenship. Of course, there are some steps you must take in order to reclaim your sovereignty (inalienable birthrights). And you have to pay particular attention to wording, i.e. a resident is a corporate citizen, but as a sovereign citizen you are domiciled or inhabitant (of a state).

...were born on or after January 1, 1960, and who have attained their eighteenth birthday, shall present themselves for registration in the manner and at the time and places as hereinafter provided." The nexus would seem to be "residing in the United States". Americans who are born within and reside within a status of the Union do not live in the "United States" as defined under most federal laws, nor do they live within any federal enclave within the boundaries of the sovereign states where federal legislative jurisdiction exists, as described in U.S. Const 1:8:17 , 4:3:2, and Hooven & Allison v. Evatt [2]. Consequently, they are not the proper subject of nearly all acts of Congress, and certainly not to even a positive law that only has jurisdiction within the " federal zone ".

I just wonder how many of the JWs who went to prison as Objectors would not have had to go at all had they been given full disclosure of procedures.

Surely any organization which has put forth so much "effort" into court battles should have known the deceit involved here. With legal minds at their disposal, they could have properly instructed the JWs in maintaining Objector status in a way that would not have sent them to prison. All they had to do was reclaim birthright citizenship as opposed to (federal) US citizenship. What a shame.

VM44

I have always thought it very strange that The Watchtower considers that it is important to publish the "Selective Service" announcement each year.

Why do they do this? Simple, to avoid being taken to court by the United States government for interferring with the Selective Service Act.

The Watchtower does NOT want youths refusing to register and then claiming that their religion forbids them from doing so.

The yearly announcement is simply a way to legally protect The Watcthower.

blondie

Many states have a registrar in their high schools to assist 18 year old students to register for Selective Service.

mustang

Cameo,

what is the source of that quote? I would like to review the context, as well as the citations that you made.

~40 years ago, I faced the SSS down: to the tune of TWO Federal hearings. I won my IV-D deferement by being my own "jailhouse lawyer".

Others were not so fortunate: they went to prison.

I was heavily coached in that I was given a 60-some page, close spacing type, "secret" document on the legal procedures involved. That document came from Brooklyn.

This ploy was not mentionend therein. I have spent much time recently reviewing that material. I have recently been asked to recount my experiences to officals of the government as "an expert". I need to review what you suggest in that light.

If it is what I think it is, it is similar to legal devices that are used to avoid taxation; these are fraught with treacherous footing and are not generally used because of the controversial nature. Such contrivances are not "sure things" and Vegas would give "long odds, against you".

Generally, competent legal counsel will not advocate using those tactics. If anything, WTS is conservative on what it puts into court and even more conservative on whatever infrequent legal advice that it issues.

I have, more than once, experienced JW legal dealings. Before doing the SSS thing, I was arrested three times in Field Service; one of those threatened to become a "test case" and go to trial.

Again, if this is what I think it is, it is not considered responsible to proffer as counsel.

Mustang

cameo-d

Mustang,

Don't JWs claim to be a "citizen of Heaven"? What is the exact wording they use?

Anyway, if they claim a citizenship in God's Kingdom as a reason for non-participation in voting, conscientious objection to war, etc. then what they may not realize is that they hold a dual citizenship,if they also have a social security card. To have an exclusive citizenship in the Kingdom of Heaven, they would have to be a Sovereign citizen claiming unalienable birthright to freedom of religion.

You give up your sovereign citizenship when you waive your rights by voluntarily asking for a social secuirty card. You now bind yourself to a Federal jurisdiction.

I do not believe many Americans have been given full disclosure concerning the implications of this action. (Just like when people are subliminally given a six-month time frame to make a decision about baptism....it is done without full disclosure of what it means to be a Member of the WT Society.)

Anyway, the GATT treaty indicates all Americans that have a social security number have voluntarily pledged themselves as collateral for the national debt. You have been pledged as collateral for any amount borrowed from the IMF and the World Bank.

There is no law that requires you to get a ss number.

I bet many Americans think that social security is exclusive to the US per the SS act of 1935 signed by Roosevelt.

Not so!

Social security is now worldwide....it's GLOBAL, and it is now directed under the UN.

This is the voluntary "mark"......it is in your hand when you carry the card; it is in your forehead when you have the number memorized.

All this stuff about biometrics and the chip is just fine-tuning what has already been put in place.

VM44

What about claiming citizenship of the world?

Probably wouldn't be legally recognized.

cameo-d

What about claiming citizenship of the world?
Probably wouldn't be legally recognized.

A sovereign citizen has the right to travel...ANYWHERE. So, in essence, I suppose that would make you a "citizen of the world".

There are different procedures for obtaining a passport without a ss card. You can also get a DL without a ss. But you do have to put forth some effort to "use the right wording" and produce cetain documentation. It can be done. It is a little more vexing and you do have to stand your ground. Most clerks you will encounter do not know the law and it is time consuming when you have to wait for them to get through the chain of command to be approved.

Snoozy

I remember in 1963 when my son was born..I dreaded him growing up and going to jail..(We were JW's). Then shortly after for the first time I knew of they did away with having to go in the army...I felt like a big weight was taken off my shoulders..

By the time they changed their mind he was grown up with 2 kids and a wife..and was no longer a JW..

I also remember going with hubby to register when he turned 18..thanks to me he had a wife and child by then and he would have been one of the last to be called in those days..they tried to just recruit the single guys...

Snoozy..who has a hard time keeping up with is there a draft register or not?

registering for Selective Service at age 18?

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