The Reasoning Book is Inspired

by Thirdson 31 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Thirdson
    Thirdson

    That is what 2 JW ladies who came to my door recently told me.

    To start at the beginning, periodically, these ladies have called and spoken to Mrs Thirdson but always on a week day. Mrs Thirdson is always very polite and has accepted the mags saying that I might be interested in reading them but making it clear that we are Christians and not interested in joining their religion. Later she told them that I had been raised a JW and when they asked my name Mrs Thirdson said that I was foreign and they wouldn't know me.

    Anyway, they came again recently when I was at home, I had just put my daughter's lunch on the table when there was knock at the door. I thought due to the early afternoon hour that it might be a salesman or political campaigner. Instead it was a lady, (I didn't notice the second younger one at first) and said she was bringing the latest magazines. (This is the gist of the conversation, I left out some things but this is the main part.)

    I was not prepared for this but before she managed to get anything out of her bag I said, "may I ask you a question? Why do you call on us. We are a Christian family and believers, why do you find it necessary to keep calling at our home?"

    The lady explained that because the worsening world conditions are predicted in the Bible and that the end of this system is near they need to call. I said, "Jesus stated that no one knows the day or the hour. His return could be tomorrow or thousands of years away."

    "Yes," she said, "but the Bible shows we are living in the time of the end." My reply was that your people have been saying this for 140 years. Her reply was we believe in everything in the Bible.

    My response back was, "where in the Bible does it state that Jesus returned in 1914?"

    "Well, we could come back and explain it."

    "No, show me here and now. After all, this is a fundamental teaching of your religion and just about the only unique thing you teach."

    The other lady said, "We don't believe Jesus is God."

    I said, "neither do the Unitarians, or the Christadelphians or for that matter the Mormons. But the 1914 teaching is crucial to your teaching that Jesus chose your religion in 1918, so explain it from the Bible."

    Well, out comes the Reasoning book. After seeing that the scripture citation was rather long, needed lots of explanation there was some hesitation so I pointed to the diagram of the 2520 years. I said' " OK even if you could explain the convoluted scripture jumping and making times years and years of days years the biggest problem is 607 BC. It's the wrong starting point, Jerusalem wasn't destroyed that year."

    "When was it destroyed then?"

    "About 587 BC or 20 years after your date. Why don't you check an encyclopedia or other history book, you won't find anyone saying 607. This is important, if that date is wrong then Jesus didn't return in 1914 and neither did he choose your religion in 1918. Tell me when was your modern religion founded?"

    "In the late eighteen hundreds."

    "Are you aware that your founding leader leader died in the early part of the twentieth century believing Jesus returned in 1874?"

    Shocked looks!

    "Do you know who William Miller was?"

    "No."

    "He was a Baptist lay preacher who predicted that Jesus would return in 1844." His followers were disappointed but the millennialist movement produced the Seventh Day Adventists as well the foundation for Russell's teachings. Now Russell predicted the end of the world in 1914 and got that wrong, and your religion has a history of predicting dates and getting them wrong, what is to stop the writers of this book changing their minds and saying that 1914 is wrong? After all, this book (pointing to Reasoning from the Scriptures) is not inspired is it?"

    Both ladies responded it was.

    Me, incredulous, "Your leaders who write these books are inspired, like the Bible?"

    Both ladies "Yes."

    Me - "So they're infallible, like the pope?"

    Younger lady, "Oh no, they are imperfect and make mistakes."

    Me "Well they are not inspired."

    Older lady "Well, we should be getting along we have people waiting for us."

    Me "OK, but you have a couple of things to research, when was Jerusalem destroyed by the Babylonians and who was William Miller."

    Younger lady, "Well you should read Matthew 24."

    Me "I certainly will. But I suggest you do the same and reflect on Jesus words about the deceivers who claim he already returned."

    So we left it at that and off they went. I don't expect they will back anytime soon or not at least when I am expected to be around. Mrs Thirdson will be primed to follow up should they ever come back.

    3rd

  • still_in74
    still_in74

    awesome job!

    WTS is inspired but not perfect? 1914? Yes another example of how JW's dont actually believe anything. They just go to meetings, bang on doors, comment, give talks, etc etc.

    What you told them could undo a lifetime of indoctrination yet you barely scratched the tip of the tip of the iceburg. Can you imagine if they came across someone else like you in the same morning? They would have to think about it!

  • LDH
    LDH

    I thought that said "The Reasoning Book is INSIPID."

    I was going to agree with you.

    I had some last week and I kinda did them the same way. The 27 year old (I asked) says, "Well we'd better get going." I said, "NO, it's rude to call and tell people you want to TALK to them when the truth is you want to talk AT them. I have some perspectives about what you are saying, too."

    She and the 17 year old stayed for almost an hour.

  • Gopher
    Gopher

    Thirdson,

    Back when I was a young lad tagging along in the field ministry with my dad back in the 60's, many JW's really could stand toe-to-toe and debate for half-an-hour or more with almost any Christian householder. They relished it.

    These JW's who came to your door sound like they gave up after about 2 minutes, saying they had to get going. Even that is probably above average for a JW these days, who have dumbed-down literature and low morale and can't wait to get to their mid-morning coffee break. They just don't make J-dubs like they used to!!

  • BabaYaga
    BabaYaga

    Bravo!

  • freethinker2009
    freethinker2009

    Its Suprising how many JW do not know anything about their religion, i remember a ministerial servant telling me that the watchtower was inspired, i told him that it can't be as none of the people who wrote it were inspired and are prone to make mistakes. He looked at me like i was crazy. I told him to go home a do some research.

    One thing you have to realize is most witnesses will only know what they are taught from the time they come in forward which means, anything prior to them coming in they will not know. they will do no research into anything without using the WT pulblications so everything they read is heavily censored as to real life and the past mistakes of the watchtower. Even I have only just started looking into the WT critically. A year and a half ago I would have told you quite confidently that all the magazines and publications are inspired by God because I was ignorant to the facts. If the witnesses started doing history lessons into their faith the many people would come to see it for what it is. Instead all they have done is produce the proclaimers book which is huge and not very appealing to read, most dont even pick up the watchtower and read it so there is almost no chance they would pick up the proclaimers, plus everything in that book is watered down.

    Bottom line is Jehovahs witnesses are so reliant on the Watchtower to tell them what they need to know they forget they have a brain and therefore do not use it to do competant research on the organization they serve.

    Anyway thats my 2 pence.

    FT09

  • lovelylil
    lovelylil

    Wow you rock! That is the best field service presentation I ever heard. I give you an A+. Peace, Lilly

  • carla
  • AgentSmith
    AgentSmith

    ***applause*****

  • Pubsinger
    Pubsinger

    Yep - that was truly awesome

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