The Great Tribulation

purplesofa

Isn't the GT before Armeggedon?

I forget when is that supposed to start, what are the signs for it.

purps

DoomVoyager

Well we will observe economic downfall in the "King of the South" - oh no wait, I forgot, it starts with Babble On the Grape being destroyed.

But never mind about all that, this here economic downfall definitely has something to do with it! Sell your house! Quit your job! Pioneer! Advertise, advertise, advertise, Brooklyn and it's Real Estate Investment Racket!

nomoreguilt

Well, it's the same stuff that's been going on since the beginning of time, isn't it? Just ask any good JW and they will tell you that it's differant now and that we shoudn't be making this comparison. I know, my EX used to say that to me all the time, that I was doubting things that I shouldn't.

I believe that everyone expierences some form of tribulation. Wouldn't you have thought that the jw's in Nazi Germany must have believed that THAT was the GT? Or the ones in Malawi or Russia? And yet, they didn't recieve the fruits of the promised presence, the end of this system.

Just my drift, and sometimes I get drifty. Good topic though Purps!

NMG

Jeremy C

The current teaching of the Watchtower is that the Great Tribulation errupts first. It is sparked (without warning) with the attack on Babylon The Great. There is a period of tribulation which is then followed by Jehovah's final execution of judgment (Armageddon).

This is why the current hysterics within the JW ranks regarding the financial crisis being the sign of the end makes no sense. It totally contradicts the Watchtower's current teaching. But then again, the Watchtower belief structure totally contradicts all rationality anyway.

nomoreguilt

Oh , yes, DV! I forgot, I should sell my house NOW! And tell me, just WHO will buy it in this economy? Quit my business and let the cong support me? I do NOT pity those folks that did just that back in 1974 and 1975. And believe me, I KNEW some of those folks. They made a choice to believe and yet did not percieve the reallity of life itself. My oh MY! I just wonder if perhaps there are those today who believe that THIS IS the END of times?

NMG

OnTheWayOut

I believe that people throwing their money in the streets comes right after a global
stock market problem, and a black U.S. president being unable to solve the problems.
That's somewhere in the WT, or Bible- I forget which.

Purps, confusion sets in because Jesus never mentioned Armageddon.
He talked about great tribulation. Revelation adds that Armageddon spin to it,
so it ain't going to be consistent throughout Christianity (like anything is).

I believe that the G.T. leads right into the big A. Even I am unsure if JW doctrines
say you can join the JW bandwagon during the G.T. but I know you cannot once
the Big A starts. All clear now?

LongHairGal

I got a phone call from an old JW friend who was thinking of me and is concerned because I am not really active in the religion. She believes we are about to descend into the Great Trib because of what is going on. I feel really sad. I cannot help what I feel and what I have experienced in the religion. She has had a whole different life and sees things totally differently. It is as though her brain is wired differently than mine is. Maybe this is true and maybe my 'brain' is different. She believes this is the truth and you couldn't tell her otherwise no matter what.

I confess that I felt nostalgia for the old days when I 'believed'. Well, I didn't actually 100% swallow everything but I believed most of it was feasible at least. Of course, this was before I found out about the failed prophecies, changed teachings and scandals.

I just yessed her to death and I felt really awful when I got off the phone with her.

LHG

mary stewart

"Babble On the Grape" HAHA! good one! sounds like how it really is. wonder if any kids thought that was what it was? :D

AGuest

May you have peace!

The "great tribulation" occurs immediately before my Lord returns to gather his chosen ones. The sequence is:

1. Great tribulation (i.e., culminating with the wild beast and false prophet being hurled into Gehenna, etc.)

2. Satan is abyssed.

3. Christ returns to the physical realm, every eye sees him... and he gathers chosen ones: some are resurrected to spirit bodies, "white robes," which is the "first" resurrection. At the same time, others are changed into spirit bodies, "white robes" - "metamorphosos"

4. These meet the Christ, my Lord, in the air and are taken into the spirit realm. They can now enter because they no longer have flesh with its blood - i.e., "soiled/corruptible outer garments", but "white robes" - i.e., clean/incorruptible spirit bodies. They are taken to the Father's "house"... in which there are many "abodes"... places to dwell... for marriage to my Lord, the Lamb. What this means is that God now dwells... resides... abides... in them all... so that they are now the fully built temple of God. New Jerusalem.

5. Once the marriage has been performed (i.e., once they all become "one"... in spirit... as a man and woman become one in flesh when they marry... because God's spirit now dwells in them ALL), these... New Jerusalem... return to the physical realm with my Lord ("I saw New Jerusalem coming down out of heaven...")

6. And sit down on thrones with Christ, my Lord, to judge (per se - actually, they perform more as priests than as kings, but their office is both...)

7. This "judging" is comprised of "separating" sheep (the meek) from goats (Gog), which occurs over the next 1,000 years or so. Based on their good treatment of Christ's brothers, the "sheep" are given white robes (spirit bodies) and granted entry into the kingdom. They are those invited to the marriage "feast," and make up the "camp" of the Holy City. They dwell just outside New Jerusalem, so while they are under the protection of the City, they are not in... or a principal part of... the City. The goats (Gog) are cut off from entering the spirit realm... and thus, the City... and so remain in the physical realm

8. At the end of the 1,000 years, once these have been separated, Satan is loosed

9. He (Satan) goes out to misled Gog (the goats) and Magog (spirit beings that are also cut off from entering the City) to come against the Holy City (made up of the Body of Christ). This is because he has convinced them that if they can enter, they can get to the Tree of Life... which is in the MIDST of the City... and eat... and live forever. That Tree... is Christ, the True Vine... the Root of Jesse... Sprout. If they can get access to him and eat from his body... they can live forever.

10. The Most Holy One of Israel does not permit this, however. Rather than simply block these from entry, as He did with Adam and Eve... fire comes down out of heaven... and destroys them. They are NOT permitted to enter... or eat. THIS is when Gog and Magog are "gathered... to the place that is called in Hebrew 'Harmageddon." THIS... is the Great Day of God Almighty... Armageddon. And it is at least 1,000 years after the Great Tribulation.

11. The next thing to occur is that Christ hands the kingdom back over to the Father, who sits back down... to judge... the living and the dead. THIS... is Judgment Day. THIS is also at least 1,000 years after the Great Tribulation.

12. The Most Holy One takes His seat and is given two (2) sets of scrolls. One contains the deeds of all, good and bad. The other is the Lamb's Scroll, the Book of Life.

13. The dead who were not part of the first resurrection are brought back... some to life... some to judgment (and thus, condemnation and destruction). This is the "second" resurrection, when the sea, death, and Hades give up those dead in them.

14. The scrolls are opened and these are either given life (if their name is included in the Lamb's Book, which inclusion "covers" their bad deeds written in the other scroll)... or given judgment... which results in condemnation and destruction (if their name is not found written in the Lamb's book, because they now have no "covering" for theirs sins... and so must be judged... and the "wage"... or price of sin... is death. Everlasting.

That's it; that's how it occurs. There is at least 1,000 years between the Great Tribulation... and Armageddon. Christ does not fight Armageddon; it is the War of the Great Day of GOD... Almighty. The WTBTS has totally missed the point... and the boat... on this one. If you need to see it in writing, the sequences are written in various places in the Bible, but the most clear are at 1 Corinthians 15:20-24, 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17, Revelation 20:1-15, and Daniel 7:9-14.

I bid you peace.

Your servant and a slave of Christ,

SA

AK - Jeff

Some people have great tribulation in their lives- Jesus was referring to that tribulation that would arise from the Romans. Done and gone. In current times there have been plenty of times that people must of thought that 'this is IT' as they fled war or intense poverty. But it never was 'IT'.

Timing - Great Tribulation c. 70 AD. I don't think that Armageddon is real, but a figment of a writer's imagination as he dwelt in captivity of the Romans. He hoped and prayed that God would teach those heathens that He was with the followers of a nice fellow named Jesus who had died a few decades back at the hands of his countrymen.

That little Christian cult grew into a behemouth. Every part of that behomouth is positive that they have it all figured out. They have always been wrong to date.

Jeff

The Great Tribulation

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