Elections Have Consequences

by SixofNine 30 Replies latest jw friends

  • Evidently
    Evidently

    And when, exactly, is this future going to start? And how many more soldiers and children will die before then?

    Don't you think it started when Hussein's dictatorship was overthrown? (Second part of the question) None, wouldn't that be your wish and hope too???

    So, the US goes in and kills and maims thousands more children. And you don't see something wrong with this picture. You kill thousands more and this somehow makes things better?
    So you're accusing the US military of killing and maiming thousands of children?? WOW, you'd think they would put that on the news or something.......come on FHN, be real.

  • LDH
    LDH
    and our President, the children of Iraq now have a future they can look forward to. Instead of the regime that tortured and killed many little girls like this one, Iraq's children will inherit a country free of a murderer like Saddam Hussein.

    Evidently You're delusional.

    We had no business invading that country. If the people of that country chose to live under a bastard's regime that's their problem. Now if THEY had started a rebellion and risen up, and we had then helped, that would have been a different matter.

    But since when does the US care about little brown children's future to the extent they're going to spend 60 BILLION dollars on them for a better 'future? ' Ha.

  • FlyingHighNow
    FlyingHighNow
    So you're accusing the US military of killing and maiming thousands of children?? WOW, you'd think they would put that on the news or something.......come on FHN, be real.

    You be real. Civilians die everyday in Iraq, directly and indirectly from the start of this war. You don't think children have died? You don't have to shoot at or bomb the kids' houses for the war to kill them.

    Here is just one report about the child mortality rate spiraling since the war began.

    http://www.iwpr.net/?p=icr&s=f&o=340692&apc_state=henpicr

    Child mortality in Iraq has spiralled because of the tense security situation, deteriorating health services and lack of medical supplies, say experts.
    According to a report released in May 2007 by aid agency Save the Children, “Iraq’s child mortality rate has increased by a staggering 150 per cent since 1990, more than any other country.”
    The report, entitled State of the World’s Mothers 2007, said that some 122,000 Iraqi children - the equivalent of one in eight - diedin 2005,before reaching their fifth birthday. More than half of the deaths were among newborn babies in their first month of life.

    War takes its toll on the smallest and the most helpless.

  • BurnTheShips
    BurnTheShips
    War takes its toll on the smallest and the most helpless.

    http://www.operationiraqichildren.org/

    Inaction takes a toll also. One must weigh the consequences of each. No doubt that many innocent children suffered during the Allied invasion of Europe, for example. However, it would have been a greater evil to do nothing.

    One thing is for sure, children, and not only children, were not doing well before the war in Iraq.

    Top 5 Crimes of Saddam Hussein

    Saddam Hussein, the president of Iraq from 1979 until 2003, has gained international notoriety for torturing and murdering thousands of his own people. Hussein believes he ruled with an iron fist to keep his country, divided by ethnicity and religion, intact. However, his actions bespeak a tyrannical despot who stopped at nothing to punish those who opposed him.

    Having been captured, Saddam Hussein will now be tried for his past crimes. Though prosecutors have hundreds of crimes to choose from, these five are some of Hussein's most heinous.

    1. Reprisal Against Dujail

      On July 8, 1982, Saddam Hussein was visiting the town of Dujail (50 miles north of Baghdad) when a group of Dawa militants shot at his motorcade. In reprisal for this assassination attempt, the entire town was punished. More than 140 fighting-age men were apprehended and never heard from again. Approximately 1,500 other townspeople, including children, were rounded up and taken to prison, where many were tortured. After a year or more in prison, many were exiled to a southern desert camp. The town itself was destroyed; houses were bulldozed and orchards were demolished.

      Though Saddam's reprisal against Dujail is considered one of his lesser-known crimes, it has been chosen as the first for which he will be tried.

    2. Anfal Campaign

      Officially from February 23 to September 6, 1988 (but often thought to extend from March 1987 to May 1989), Saddam Hussein's regime carried out the Anfal (Arabic for "spoils") campaign against the large Kurdish population in northern Iraq. The purpose of the campaign was ostensibly to reassert Iraqi control over the area; however, the real goal was to permanently eliminate the Kurdish problem.

      The campaign consisted of eight stages of assault, where up to 200,000 Iraqi troops attacked the area, rounded up civilians, and razed villages. Once rounded up, the civilians were divided into two groups: men from ages of about 13 to 70 and women, children, and elderly men. The men were then shot and buried in mass graves. The women, children, and elderly were taken to relocation camps where conditions were deplorable. In a few areas, especially areas that put up even a little resistance, everyone was killed.

      Hundreds of thousands of Kurds fled the area, yet it is estimated that up to 182,000 were killed during the Anfal campaign. Many people consider the Anfal campaign an attempt at genocide.

    3. Chemical Weapons Against Kurds

      As early as April 1987, the Iraqis used chemical weapons to remove Kurds from their villages in northern Iraq during the Anfal campaign. It is estimated that chemical weapons were used on approximately 40 Kurdish villages, with the largest of these attacks occurring on March 16, 1988 against the Kurdish town of Halabja.

      Beginning in the morning on March 16, 1988 and continuing all night, the Iraqis rained down volley after volley of bombs filled with a deadly mixture of mustard gas and nerve agents on Halabja. Immediate effects of the chemicals included blindness, vomiting, blisters, convulsions, and asphyxiation. Approximately 5,000 women, men, and children died within days of the attacks. Long-term effects included permanent blindness, cancer, and birth defects. An estimated 10,000 lived, but live daily with the disfigurement and sicknesses from the chemical weapons.

      Saddam Hussein's cousin, Ali Hassan al-Majid was directly in charge of the chemical attacks against the Kurds, earning him the epithet, "Chemical Ali."

    4. Invasion of Kuwait

      On August 2, 1990, Iraqi troops invaded the country of Kuwait. The invasion was induced by oil and a large war debt that Iraq owed Kuwait. The six-week, Persian Gulf War pushed Iraqi troops out of Kuwait in 1991. As the Iraqi troops retreated, they were ordered to light oil wells on fire. Over 700 oil wells were lit, burning over one billion barrels of oil and releasing dangerous pollutants into the air. Oil pipelines were also opened, releasing 10 million barrels of oil into the Gulf and tainting many water sources. The fires and the oil spill created a huge environmental disaster.

    5. Shiite Uprising & the Marsh Arabs

      At the end of the Persian Gulf War in 1991, southern Shiites and northern Kurds rebelled against Hussein's regime. In retaliation, Iraq brutally suppressed the uprising, killing thousands of Shiites in southern Iraq.

      As supposed punishment for supporting the Shiite rebellion in 1991, Saddam Hussein's regime killed thousands of Marsh Arabs, bulldozed their villages, and systematically ruined their way of life. The Marsh Arabs had lived for thousands of years in the marshlands located in southern Iraq until Iraq built a network of canals, dykes, and dams to divert water away from the marshes. The Marsh Arabs were forced to flee the area, their way of life decimated.

      By 2002, satellite images showed only 7 to 10 percent of the marshlands left. Saddam Hussein is blamed for creating an environmental disaster.

    Wikipedia:

    In April 1991, after Saddam lost control of Kuwait in the Gulf War, he cracked down ruthlessly against several uprisings in the Kurdish north and the Shia south. His forces committed wholesale massacres and other gross human rights violations against both groups similar to the violations mentioned before. Estimates of deaths during that time range from 20,000 to 100,000 for Kurds, and 60,000 to 130,000 for Shi'ites. [3]

    BTS

  • FlyingHighNow
    FlyingHighNow

    So now the death toll just multiplies and spreads throughout Iraq.

  • beksbks
    beksbks

    Ok all you that point out Saddam's crimes. How many countries are we going to go and "free"? Did you ever look at how much crap the English perpetrated against the Irish last century? Why didn't we go there and "kick ass". How about Idi Amin? Rwanda? I mean where the heck does it stop?? We can't be the worlds police force, particularly when we haven't been asked to police.

    Not even addressing the fact that the "Iraqi Freedom" reasoning was the one of three that was finally settled on to make the whole thing more palatable to the American public after WMD's and Bin Laden didn't pan out.

  • BurnTheShips
    BurnTheShips
    Ok all you that point out Saddam's crimes. How many countries are we going to go and "free"? Did you ever look at how much crap the English perpetrated against the Irish last century? Why didn't we go there and "kick ass". How about Idi Amin? Rwanda? I mean where the heck does it stop?? We can't be the worlds police force, particularly when we haven't been asked to police.

    Good point.

    BTS

  • beksbks
    beksbks

    Good point.

    BTS

    Huh? Does not compute!

  • FlyingHighNow
    FlyingHighNow
    Rwanda?

    Yes, when all it would have taken to thwart the mass slaughter was to scramble the radio signals the instigators were using to broadcast instructions and fan the fires of murder.

    I don't understand why the United Nations, America (Clinton was in office), Great Britain, France or any country with influence and ability didn't step in with this simple, non-invasive help.

    Could it be that Rwanda wasn't a major oil country and the skin of the victims was black?

  • FlyingHighNow
    FlyingHighNow
    During the Genocide

    Following the Rwandan Genocide in 1994, the first relief workers on the scene reported seeing hundreds of Hutus fleeing their villages with little more than the clothes on their backs and transistor radios pressed to their ears. [citation needed]

    As the genocide was taking place, the United States military drafted a plan to jam RTLM's broadcasts, but this action was never taken because of the cost of the operation and the legal implications of interfering with Rwanda's sovereignty. [citation needed]

    When the Tutsi-led RPF army won control of the country in July, RTLM took mobile equipment and fled to neighbouring Zaire with Hutu refugees.

    Funny how cost and interfering with Iraq's sovereignty didn't matter.

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