the seventy year thing

logic

I hate to keep bringing it up but I would to give the jws something to think about. If the isrealites had done as god had told them, to serve babylon voluntairly as they had done in the beginning, then when would the seventy years of so called total devastation have began. God said that only if they did not serve babylon that they would be destroyed.

Up untill 587 they did ok. They were able to stay on the land like they were promised. If they had obeyed this devastation think would not even be important. The society ignores the fact that the city did not need to be destroyed. They even got a repreive in 589 when they rebelled, they still got to stay on the land.

When looked at the whole thing in this light it is obvious that the seventy years and the devastations were two different things, the seventy years were absolute but the devastations were not. No matter whether they obeyed or not they would serve babylon for seventy years. The isrealites choose the hard way.

That is the problem with most of the societys 'teachings' , they are illogical.

insearchoftruth

That is the problem with most of the societys 'teachings' , they are illogical.

Well once one becomes indoctrinated into the org, so are the members......

Honesty

There is no logic to your post because it does represent what the Bible teaches about the seventy years.All of the 'seventy year'texts prove that at the same time there was a period of devastation of the land of Judah, exile of the Jews to Babylon, served therefore at Babylon from 607 BCE until 537 BCE. Apostates and higher critics have presented many different interpretations of the seventyh years but none of them are based on a collective view of the 'seventy year' texts. The Society's view based on the Bible is the only model that works for all of the others are bunkum.
scholar JW

Prove it.

logic

Scholar, I usually read your post even though I never agree with anything you have to say. You express yourself well. I really do not believe you are who you say you are, I think you are a very experienced debater. A good debater has the ability to make things that are illogical to sound logical. If no one checks out the facts then it sounds reasonable. In my opinion I think you are a split personality possibly with identities on this site an others. You are too good at reversing the logic on both sides. What am I saying is I think you are two people on these sites and I consider you very good at it.

Your weakness as scholar is your lack of logic, you say things that just does not make sense to me. I myself am a very critical reader and check all my facts before I open my mouth. I actually think you do this to get more information out that actually proves the 587 date . It is in my opinion very clever of you. That is the reason I have read almost of your postings. I wont mention who I think your alter ego is, but you writings styles are very close to each to each other.

I actually want to thankyou for your efforts, because your scholar style makes it very clear that the 607 date is wrong. I think you are having a very good time with the whole thing.

My point with my post was , what would have happened if the isrealites had obeyed god. He did tell them that if they obeyed they would be able to stay on their land. In other words , lets say that they obeyed god right up to one year before 539 bc but then rebelled and caused the destruction fo jerusalem, while all the time they were serving babylon. How long would that make the desolation. In my math that would only be one year. You have to remember that other nations were subservient to babylon but were not desvated because they did what they were told.

I alreay foresee your reply, and it will probably be a good one. By the way I very seldon get into discussions on the net, I just dont have the time or the talent for it. You and others do just fine.

by the way I'm honored you even answered my post.

Doug Mason

Hi Scholar,

I believe that "higher critcism" is relevant in the understanding of Jeremiah. How can the context and the understanding of the people be ignored?

Are you really suggesting that "lower criticism" is the only way?

Doug

cameo-d

what is the 70 year thing?

The holocaust of WWII started in sept. 1939....

In 2009 it will be 70 years. Does that mean we are due for another holocaust?

Doug Mason

A proper understanding of the 70 years of Babylonian domination requires a wider sweep of scripture and of history.

In the Law (Pentateuch), the people were warned that disobedience would result in their deportation and in the desolation (shamah) of the land. -- Lev. 26:34, 35; Deut. 28:36, 37.

As a result of their intransigent disobedience, the people of the northern nation of Israel experienced that very outcome. -- Jer. 2:14, 15

Even after this experience, Jeremiah said that Israel had the oppoortunity to return and flourish, if they confessed their sin and repented of their sinfulness. -- Jer. 3:12, 22

Turning his attention to the people of Judah, Jeremiah said they were worse than Israel, since they had witnessed the outcome upon their northern sister. -- Jer. 3:6-11

The righteousness of Judah's kings Hezekiah and Josiah brought a temporary stay of executuin. -- 2 Kings 18:3-7; 19:14-19; 22:2, 19.

Because of the unbelievably evil reign of King Manasseh and the backsliding and obstinate disobedience of Josiah's descendants, Judah was to experience the very same fate as had befallen Israel. -- Jer. 4:5-18

Judah's neighbours were to share in her punishment, and they had to serve Babylon for 70 years. Any nation that was prepared to serve Babylon for the 70 years was permitted to stay in its own land. -- Jer. 25:11, 12, 17; 27:11.

But the people of Judah were determined that they would not listen and they continued to resist God's calls. So the ultimate punishment was carried out. -- Jer. 25:3-8; 44:16; 52:2-3

When Judah's prince Daniel considered the state of the sanctuary, he confessed the people's sins and pleaded for its restitution. In response to Daniel's prayer, the people were given one final opportunity. -- Dan. 9:1-19 (prayer); 20-27 (God's response).

But Israel had no one who was prepared to represent them before God, as Daniel had done on behalf of Judah.

The nations' servitude finished when Babylon fell in 539 BCE. -- Jer. 25:12-14; 2 Chron. 36:21.

And in accord with Daniel's focus and understanding, the sanctuary was rebuilt 70 years after its destruction in 587 BCE.

Many other supporting scripture references could have been provided.

Doug
Melbourne

Doug Mason

cameo-d

It is difficult to say precisely when the holocaust (shoah) actually started.

Initially, the Nazis handled the Jews by deporting them to countries that would accept them. My Viennese father was arrested during Kristallnacht in November 1938, and was sent to Dachau KZ. He was released when a relation obtained a visa for him to go to England.

The mass murdering really took off in 1942. My mother's parents were gassed in the back of a truck at Chelmno on 10 May 1942. My father's parents, along with a daughter and her 2 year old son were shot dead at Maly Trostinec, near Minsk, on 26 May 1942.

Which has got nothing at all to do with any fulfillment of biblical prophecy. Never use any contemporary event to interpret scripture.

Doug
Melbourne

Mary

Scholar doesn't have a leg to stand on and he knows it. He's just too bullheaded and brain dead to admit that the WTS is dead wrong on this doctrine, just like they're wrong on numerous other doctrines. Scholar has been shown various evidences over the years that proves that the first temple was not destroyed in 607 BCE. He just ignores the evidence and then tries to twist it into meaning something else which of course, is a typical JW tactic that we all learned early on.

cameo-d

Doug,

There are really no words that can appropriately convey how very very sorry I am that your family has suffered such horrors and tragedy. And I am so very sorry that my post brought this to your mind again. Please forgive me for making you feel that pain again today.

Never use any contemporary event to interpret scripture.

I was not making light of this past history. As a matter of fact, I was wondering if there might be some correlation of major events at 70 year (or approximate) points of time. I was thinking of major developments like when entire civilizations "went missing" or rather, were wiped off the face of the earth. Or times in history where there were massive deaths due to war, famine, or plague.

One thing that makes me wonder these things is because it is so often said that history repeats itself and many things are cyclic.

the seventy year thing

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