I cannot "unprove" every single wild-side 911 theory...

by james_woods 35 Replies latest social current

  • james_woods
    james_woods

    Here is what I received this morning from an enthusiast...

    James-Woods, do you remember Leoleoia (wrong spelling) whom you supported vehemently on this subject? I've been waiting for her comments, and, still waiting. As for you, you've taken the course of least resistance, you decided to ignore me and not address the issue. Depending on others to support your belief is the course of least resistance. All I'm asking is for YOU to provide me material to support your claims, what's so difficult about that? Have you ever gone to court? If so, then you know what I'm talking about.


    So, provide me something to go on and I'll check it out!!! Am I asking too much?

    Yes, you are asking too much of me. I can no more disprove this kind of ranting than I can disprove that we have the remains of a flying saucer in area 51, or that the BigFoot has been found by a sheriffs deputy in the outskirts of Atlanta, Ga.

    I in turn are asking you to simply think for yourself - (as in - why do I care about this 911/conspiricy issue so much?)

    I personally have other subjects which are more interesting.

    And so, I suspect, does Leoleai.

  • inrainbows
    inrainbows

    James... absolutely.

    The rabid monomaniacs expect 'us' to devote our free time to refute nonsense that they could refute themselves if they were not victims of either a massive con or their own pathological weaknesses. Their conceit is such they expect people who may not even know of the discussion to pop out of the Internet to fan their ego.

    I posted this on another 9/11 thread which then went dead, thought I'd stick it here with typos corrected and a few additions;

    The problem with the conspiracist arguments that dispute the official version of physical events is the huge voids in their arguments.

    They claim that the towers were demolished using explosives but in addition to no firm evidence do not provide any mechanism for how the charges were put in place; any research will reveal that tonnes of explosives and weeks of very noticeable work would have been required.

    They also ignore that the impacts of panes and or collapsing tower debris and the subsequent fires produce the collapses in computer models.

    They claim that the planes had explosive pods on them. They credulity of this is quite outstanding; they don't ever wonder why the explosives were not placed inside the plane (there is loads of room after all), instead they claim a pod was bolted onto the outside with poor evidence and no explanation of how this was done or how the planes were able to fly with this massive aerodynamic modification. And they ignore expert evidence that shows the so-called-pod is in fact a photographic artifact (check Popular Mechanics).

    They insist a plane didn't hit the Pentagon when there are dozens of eye-witnesses on the Freeway who saw the plane fly over their heads seconds before the impact.

    They don't address these and other legion faults in their arguments that are splashed all over the Internet, the cunning and deceptive nature of conspiracist websites, the partial and selective argumentation.

    The pathological nature of their beliefs structures is such that even WITH a perfectly adequate factual and scientific explanation for what hit what and when and why what happened next happened next, they insist SOMETHING ELSE hap pend, which they cannot prove and which often requires a massive leap of faith and presupposition to believe in.

    And of course, there is the egotistical elitists posturing that they are of an elite 'in the know', and everyone else is an ignorant dupe.

    As their belief patterns are so deeply pathological reasoned debate is largely pointless; the only people it can help are those with no firmly fixed opinion who have been deceived by the conspiracies propaganda and the attractive elitism of the argument. By reading discussions between the conspiracists and those with a more reasoned and evidential argument they can see that the conspiracists have NOTHING to disprove the physical events of the day.

    Please note I do separate the competence of the US government, the possibility of deliberate negligence, the definite use of terrorist attacks to justify existing political aims, whole-sale deception of the public through disinformation and stealing elections from the physical facts of 9/11.

    All of the last paragraph are possible parts of a massive government/industrial conspiracy. One that would have involved creating public support after the event to bolster a strategic war for control of energy resources that was already seen as desirable through disinformation, and the desirability of a war to delay a recession in the US during the Bush regime. Had enough and quite believable.

    But planes with real passengers and Al-Qaeda terrorists in them hit buildings and they fell down, another plane with real passengers and Al-Qaeda terrorists in it ploughed into the ground, another plane with real passengers and Al-Qaeda terrorists in it hit the Pentagon, and WTC7 fell down because a falling tower damaged it; no extra explosives required, no remote control airplanes or bomb-pods. To believe otherwise runs against the evidence.

    But as the beliefs of the conspiracists nut-jobs are NOT based on evidence, no amount of evidence will persuade them they are wrong.

  • keyser soze
    keyser soze

    Thousands of people watched planes filled with passengers fly into the twin towers. Have them refute that first. 9/11 conspiracy theorists have never been able to get around this basic fact.

  • Big Tex
    Big Tex
    Yes, you are asking too much of me. I can no more disprove this kind of ranting than I can disprove that we have the remains of a flying saucer in area 51, or that the BigFoot has been found by a sheriffs deputy in the outskirts of Atlanta, Ga.

    James the cops come to your door and arrest you for murder. They tell you they won't release you until you can prove, not just beyond a reasonable doubt, but beyond all doubt, every single theory they have about the case, AND you must produce the real murderer.

    That's about the scope of what we're dealing with here.

    From what I've seen and read, 9/11 conspiracy buffs have a hypothesis. It's not even a theory, which has some facts. They have an idea. But what's incredible to me, and frustrating beyond belief, is they absolutely, will not make any attempt whatsoever to (1) provide a logical, reasonable storyline for what they think happened on Sept. 11, 2001 (forget about events leading up to that day); (2) provide just a modicum of proof; and (3) respond, debate and/or discuss with someone who doesn't immediately buy into the hypothesis and who does give facts that disprove their idea. I loved it when I was told the absence of proof is an indication of conspiracy.

    James I don't know about you, but I've got an open mind. I'm willing to believe the United States government is capable of nearly anything. It's been proven the government exposed innocent civilians to nuclear radiation from atomic bomb testing. It was covered up for decades. That is a real conspiracy that affected tens of thousands of people, and who knows how many people developed cancer or even died from that exposure?

    When I believed in a conpiracy surrounding JFK, I could at least give a narrative of what I thought happened. I could speak intelligently and respond to someone who thought otherwise with facts surrounding the most minutest details of the case. I could give what I considered to be proof (i.e., the Magic Bullet).

    See the thing in dicsussions like this is no one is ever going to be able to prove with 100% certainty either way. Part of the fun is engaging in a give and take, and frankly these folks have a big bag of nothing. But I think it's more than that. They don't want to discuss, they want to preach. They want to convert. Damn facts, to hell with logic and reason, just believe what I say. And if you don't, you're part of THEM.

    Gets boring after a while. Whatever.

    Chris

  • james_woods
    james_woods

    Chris, you are right. The 9/11 theorists hate the fact that we do not believe their fantasy.

    But, then - I suppose that the Scientologists would also term me as a suppresive person:

    Suppresive person or group: a person or group of persons who actively seek to suppress or damage Scientology or a Scientologist by suppressive acts. See also: potential trouble source; suppressive acts.

    but then, perhaps such things as this desperately need to be suppressed:

    Space Opera: of or relating to time periods on the whole track millions of years ago which concerned activities in this and other galaxies. Space opera has space travel, spaceships, spacemen, intergalactic travel, wars, conflicts, other beings, civilizations and societies, and other planets and galaxies. It is not fiction and concerns actual incidents and things that occured on the track. See also: whole track.
    Whole Track: the moment by moment record of a person's existence in this universe in picture and impression form.

    This crap came from the Scientologists themselves: http://www.scientology.org

    It is indeed a sad thing to see an otherwise functional mind given over to such obsessions: JW, 9-11, L. Ron Hubbard, Madonna-Cabbala - and the list goes on and on...

  • JeffT
    JeffT

    I read/heard a psychogical study of conspiracy theorists a while back (I'll try to find the reference). It went all the way back to JFK. The bottom line is that real life is a complicated place, full of shades of grey and random happenings. This is really frightening. We want to impose order on the world. It doesn't feel right that a lone guy with a gun can kill the most important person in the world, or that 19 nobodies can kill 3000 people. This makes all of us unsafe, potential victims. Much easier to believe that it took a bunch of people working in concert to bring down the President or the twin towers. It reduces the fear, and makes us not responsible for doing anything to prevent future occurances.

    I may not be putting that right, but that was the main point.

  • Galileo
    Galileo

    Glad to see this thread. I got tired of debating unreasonable people so I stopped even looking at the 911 threads when I saw three separate threads (started by the same crackpot) on one page here. I don't really have anything to add, I agree with what's been said.

  • heathen
    heathen

    Yah ok the totally new never before seen thermal expansion theory is now at play for people that want to believe the non conspiracy crowd . We can always make up new laws of physics to explain away everything .

  • james_woods
    james_woods
    We can always make up new laws of physics to explain away everything .

    Well, you said it yourself heathen.

    I understand.

  • golf2
    golf2

    Let me be up-front about this matter. It was I, Golf, who sent james-woods this letter in his PRIVATE box! I sent this letter yesterday morning. J-W makes sound as though I sent it this morning, no such thing. As I've said, this topic is done my alley. My stating being a high-steel worker for 4 decades was not to impress anyone. You fellows don't have a clue what this occupation is all about. I wasn't going to sit back and take the crap that a plane alone and it's crash brought down the wtc. This has been my bone of contention from the beginning and it's still is!






    All I'm asking is, give me independent experts that support your claim, not government FUNDED groups. Thanks JW for sharing my mail, remind me to send you another letter.



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