Christianity..... do you have to believe...

by yknot 19 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Rapunzel
    Rapunzel

    What's in store for Moslems [Sunnis, Shia, and Sufi]; Sihks; Jains; Hindus; Buddhists; Jews; and animists - the vast majority of non-Christian humanity who have absolutely no inkling - not the merest conception - of Christianity or its myriad and fragmented doctrinal variations? Most of humanity has no better knowledge of Christianity than we "Westerners" have of their religions and philosophical systems. To take Islam as merely one example, how many Christians possess even the vaguest/slightest knowledge of it? How many Chritians can truthfully say that they have read even one single sutra or verse of the Qu'ran? How many Christians have held a Qu'ran in their hands? Not many, I can assure you. Conversely, the vast majority of people adhering to faiths other than Christianity have never read or owned a Bible.

    What's to become of the vast majority of humanity who have never even heard the name "Jesus"?

    The very notion of "salvational exclusivity," propagated by a good number of Christians - the idea that a person must "accept" Jesus in order to be saved, seems ludicrous to me. The notion that, some 2000 years ago, "God" chose, of all places, a primative cultural backwater - on the periphery of the Roman empire - to send the Redeemer, and this at a time when most people in the world were totally illiterate. The fact that, at this time, most people were unable to read is crucially important because it involves the transmission of scripture. In other words, why would God, if endowed with infinite wisdom, choose such a time period in which the reliable transmission of scrpture was virtually impossible?

    Any honest person who has researched the bible has to admit that, basically, we have no idea of what this character, named "Jesus" really said and what he taught. There exists not one single original manuscript dating from the era in which Jesus supposedly lived. We only have copies of copies of copies of copies of copies at best. Most of these consist of mere fragments. And when one compares and contrasts these manuscripts with each other, one can determine that, in regard to the "New Testament," there are more differences than words. There are more differences among the surviving New Testament manuscripts than there are words in the New Testament; the differences among manuscripts outnumber the words that make up the New Testament.

    Moreover, it is common knowledge that there are many, many sciptures that did not "make it into" the established cannon. Many of these flatly contradict those scriptures that were accepted as cannon.

    The question is: By whose authority were some scriptures accepted while others were rejected? By whose authority, and on what grounds? Honest research reveals that it was the "political," and ultimately arbitrary, decisions of a few "church fathers."

    In its essence, Christianity is very much a "textual" [as oppsed to primarily ritualistic] religion. Of course, Christianity has its rites and rituals. But, ultimately this religion claims its legitamacy based almost solely on its texts, on its scriptures. In my opinion, the problem with Christianity is that the texts or scriptures, upon which it is based are extremely problematic. To use a rather trite metaphor, it is all merely a "house of cards." The scriptural basis of Christianity is an illusion, a chimera. It is a bricolage, a patchwork, of disjointed and inherently contradictory texts. The very notion of which scriptures are "canon" [and are thus to be considered legitimate or authorized] is itself extremely problematic. That decision was made many hundreds of years ago by a very small group of men who exerted great socio-political and cultural power.

    To me, it is absurd that an infinitely wise and omniscient "God" would choose such a dubious and tenuous method to transmit a text upon which the very salvation [or contrasting eternal damnation] of people depends. How presumptuous and risible the contention that certain people entertain, that they somehow know the mind of "God." In my opinion, this is the position of a madman.

    .

  • Deputy Dog
    Deputy Dog

    Rapunzel

    To me, it is absurd that an infinitely wise and omniscient "God" would choose such a dubious and tenuous method to transmit a text upon which the very salvation [or contrasting eternal damnation] of people depends. How presumptuous and risible the contention that certain people entertain, that they somehow know the mind of "God." In my opinion, this is the position of a madman.

    Joh 14:6

    Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

    So you agree with C.S. Lewis.

  • possible-san
    possible-san

    I am a Japanese.
    Religion of Japan is mainly "Shinto" and "Buddhism".
    Christians are only 1% of the Japanese.

    I feel that the talks only by English-speaking people are not good.
    In many cases, the explanation in this forum is unacceptable in Japanese people.

    This forum must be global.

  • Slappy
    Slappy

    First off, excellent replies XJW4EVR and Deputy Dog, not much more I can add.

    Rapunzel: What other book lays out the foundation for a way of life that can be truly fulfilling for everybody and teaches things, that, if everybody would follow, would make this world about as perfect as an imperfect world can be? And claim to be the word of a 'higher power'? Deputy Dog mentioned C.S. Lewis, and very appropriately so.

    For those that aren't aware, Lewis lays out an argument to dissuade the notion that Jesus was 'just' a 'great teacher'. With His teachings, which epitomize all that is good, and with His claim to be the Son of God and equal with God, He cannot 'just' be a great teacher. We must either take Him at His word that He is who He claims to be, or He must be a madman, it is not possible for any middle-ground to exist. Now, is it possible for a madman to teach those things that Jesus taught? No! Therefore He must be who He claims to be.

    As for all those other people who do not know what the Bible teaches, it is my understanding that they will all have a 'second chance' during the tribulation. God is Just, and He will not judge someone who has not had a chance to hear His word and claim the truth for his or herself. They have another opportunity to accept the sacrifice and offer that Christ made. Again, this my understanding and in no means should be quoted with any sort of authority. All I can ask is that you search for the answer yourself.

  • LayingLow
  • Sarah Smiles
    Sarah Smiles

    I think that is good enough! the model set forth in scriptures and do not back slide into pagan idols worshipping. Other wise if you choice to walk away from the Holy Spirit then is there a salvation left for YOU? That is a hard one!

    Some people think that after reading the bible and knowing Jesus Christ they can back slide into worshipping a turtle or budha and still be saved. You know the kind the rebellious type who wear a godless turtle around their necks. If people sin they can be saved such as adultery, fornication, or pre knowing Jesus worship idols just take it to God. However, once you learn about Jesus Christ salvation and received Holy Spirit thne backslide into false idols and worshipping false religion; Hindu, Muslum, etc., then what salvation is left for you? It is like cursing on Jesus salvation!

    I do not understand how anyone could be raised as a Christian backslide into false religion and wear idols or worship idols! YOU can only be mad at the WTBTS for so long! but to deny Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit well I just feel sorry for YOU and really do not want anything to do with this type of person!

    Although, Jehovah will spare his people even out of false religion! I am sure their are many people who are sitting in their false religion that Jehovah, YHWH, plans to save! that one is a given! but to deny the Holy Spirit and Christ salvation I am really not too sure that person will be saved!

  • XJW4EVR
    XJW4EVR

    In its essence, Christianity is very much a "textual" [as oppsed to primarily ritualistic] religion. Of course, Christianity has its rites and rituals. But, ultimately this religion claims its legitamacy based almost solely on its texts, on its scriptures. In my opinion, the problem with Christianity is that the texts or scriptures, upon which it is based are extremely problematic. To use a rather trite metaphor, it is all merely a "house of cards." The scriptural basis of Christianity is an illusion, a chimera. It is a bricolage, a patchwork, of disjointed and inherently contradictory texts. The very notion of which scriptures are "canon" [and are thus to be considered legitimate or authorized] is itself extremely problematic. That decision was made many hundreds of years ago by a very small group of men who exerted great socio-political and cultural power.

    What a nice assertion, now how about some proof?

  • XJW4EVR
    XJW4EVR

    In its essence, Christianity is very much a "textual" [as oppsed to primarily ritualistic] religion. Of course, Christianity has its rites and rituals. But, ultimately this religion claims its legitamacy based almost solely on its texts, on its scriptures. In my opinion, the problem with Christianity is that the texts or scriptures, upon which it is based are extremely problematic. To use a rather trite metaphor, it is all merely a "house of cards." The scriptural basis of Christianity is an illusion, a chimera. It is a bricolage, a patchwork, of disjointed and inherently contradictory texts. The very notion of which scriptures are "canon" [and are thus to be considered legitimate or authorized] is itself extremely problematic. That decision was made many hundreds of years ago by a very small group of men who exerted great socio-political and cultural power.

    What a nice assertion, now how about some proof?

    Just what I thought, baseless assertions with no proof.

  • Slappy
    Slappy

    But u r so going against the rules Deputy Dog. They can only ask us for proof. We're not allowed to ask them for proof. Don't u know the rules? :-p.

    slappy

  • Slappy
    Slappy

    But u r so going against the rules Deputy Dog. They can only ask us for proof. We're not allowed to ask them for proof. Don't u know the rules? :-p.

    slappy

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