dawg..... Your words are EXACTLY how I feel. I feel that it is incumbent upon ME to have the older son face up to the reallity of being a REAL brother and not just a cult controlled person.
You have a PM
NMG
My Son's Shunning begins......So Sad
by nomoreguilt 28 Replies latest jw friends
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DanTheMan
Wow, this sounds like a very delicate situation. I don't know the dynamics of your relationships with your sons enough to try to give you any advice here. A couple of trips to a family counselor might help you to formulate a plan.
I'd go easy on the apostate-talk with the younger son unless you're certain that he's truly mentally out of the org. -
dawg
Dan says... "I'd go easy on the apostate-talk with the younger son unless you're certain that he's truly mentally out of the org"
Why? So you can stroke the feelings of one son who's acting like a tyrant; reinforce his feelings that what he's doing is correct in anyway? Clearly, shunning anyone because they see life, nay, they see God and the world differently is a wrong course of action by the one brother. The younger brother has done nothing wrong, so why wouldn't a dad take sides?
Dads, and I'm sure nomoreguilt is a good one from what he's posted, have to stick a boot in someones ass every now and then.. doesn't mean that the method has to be harsh, it can be simply telling someone how you feel, that you feel an action is wrong.
Honestly, I leave this site daily wondering how many of you can live like you do... it puzzles me that you don't feel you can speak your minds to your loved ones. You have a higher obligation to those you love than anyone else. If you know somethings wrong then you have to say so, if someone cuts you off for saying it then still you can live with the fact you did what's right. -
Awakened at Gilead
Honestly, I leave this site daily wondering how many of you can live like you do... it puzzles me that you don't feel you can speak your minds to your loved ones. You have a higher obligation to those you love than anyone else. If you know somethings wrong then you have to say so, if someone cuts you off for saying it then still you can live with the fact you did what's right.
Amen, bro!
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changeling
Again dawg, you have no children. That changes your perspective radically. Alienating a child is like killing him, something most parents cannot even think of.
Our firm but tactful stand has allowed our son to get out and our daughter to be mentally out (she is married to a JW). We had some very tense moments at the begining of our fade and quickly realized we had to lead by example. It worked for us.
There is no one right way to leave the WT or to deal with those still in. And those who have children in have the most delicate balancing act of all.
changeling :)
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dawg
And around and around we go... will Challenging ever get it, nobody knows?
You write..."Our firm but tactful stand has allowed our son to get out and our daughter to be mentally out" and yet think still that something you're saying is different than what I wrote.
I've honestly given up hope on folks like this. -
BabaYaga
Dawg... everyone knows how DEFENSIVE the JWs are. It is taught at five meetings every week and deeply ingrained.
The slower and subtler the truth about the (T)ruth, the less likely it will be met with direct head-on defenses and opposition.
Not only that, but every individual is different. Every one here left for a different reason or combination of reasons! Perhaps the ones who are moving slowly and deliberately KNOW that is the best way to approach the ones we love. -
nomoreguilt
Dan, Awake, Changling, CoCo, dawg......This is indeed a very delicate situation. Being a parent does cast a differant light on trying to be reasonable and tactful at the same time. I have never been a confrontational person, however, I do feel that there is a time and a place for everything. My problem dilema is choosing that time and place.
I would like to see time work this thing outas I do have plenty of that. I just don't want to see my younger son be any more abused by these people than is necessary. Not that I am a heartless persn towards the older one. You have to understand that I have been trying to rekindle the relationships that we had before my divorce from their mother who did her BEST to alienate them from me. ARGH!
Time will tell, jusdt how much I give them , that's another question.
NMG
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AudeSapere
I haven't read all the replys but wanted to comment.
I'm in a similar situation with one of my siblings. Haven't spoken to him in just over two years. (If you really want to know details, look at my posting history.)
The similarity is that my dad was present and witnessed the scene. He, as you are, was quite upset that two grown children of his who were once very close had such an ugly dissolution of respect.
My dad chose to be silent. This made me angry because because by his silence, he seemed to condone the poor behavior of my brother toward me. Then, to 'help' my brother come around, they started hanging out together more and more. For nearly two years they are workout buddies - several times each week. (Sidenote: the outcome of all the workout sessions ended up creating a serious situation that has very nearly ended my brothers' marriage. Time will tell.)
Anyway, I guess the point I'm trying to make is: Speak up for what you believe to be right. Don't overcompensate with one child over the other. Respect them both as lovable, cherished humans but OK to let them know that you are (1) disappointed that they are not closer and more accepting, and (2) that the shunner should, in your opinion, lighten up.
You wrote: Now, it's up to us to undo all that crap.
I think I disagree with this. Your boys are adults now - in their 30's, yes? Their lives are not your responsibility anymore. It's up to them to do and undo their own crap. You can present your updated world views and, if they want it, help them understand what caused/allowed you to change yourself. But it's ultimately their individual responsibilities to fix and create their own lives.
You might want to call the shunner on his unloving thought processes. Apologize for bringing him up in such a repressive high control group. Then, in my opinion, best to just let it go.
I feel you each of you. I've got one of each of you in my life. Heck! I've been in each of those positions myself.
Best to encourage everyone to be accepting, friendly, open, honest, loving, grown-up family members.
Good Luck to you!!
-Aude.
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choosing life
NMG,
I have grown children in and out of the org. I agree with CoCo that being nonconfrontational generally has worked best. I haven't attended for years and continue to fade to keep the peace. I try to consider their feelings in each situation as I realize it was me who brought them into this strange religion.
The one thing I am adamant about is family relationships. When one is speaking badly about the other, I will sympathize with their concerns, but then remind them that they only have one brother and not to forget that special relationship.
In your case, you know what works best for your family. Just remember to promote peace between everyone rather than division. It may take a very long time to reach our loved ones with sensible thinking. It may not happen at all. The org. tries to split families, as you mention. Your sons have only one mother, father and brother and they should cherish those relationships. Anything you can say or do to make that happen is in their best interests.
It is like dancing on a high wire, but it is worth the effort. Good luck!
cl