How we Know that Evolution is a Fact

by JanH 68 Replies latest jw friends

  • JanH
    JanH

    There has been a number of threads related to evolution in the last month or so. Some posters, like Penn, subscribes to a form of creationism, which I for this purpose will define as denial of large scale evolution (sometimes called macro-evolution).

    Even saner people sometimes alleges that scientists are unnecessarily 'dogmatic' about evolution, and that this is 'just a theory.' These people may be recent exJWs or JWs, still believing the Watchtower propaganda against evolutionary science, or accepting similar claims from various fundamentalist preachers and groups. Often, creationists attribute scienists' acceptance of evolution to some materialist or even atheist prejudices, and deny that the evidence itself is totally in favor of evolution.

    However, scientists are certain about evolution on the merits of facts alone. The body of evidence for evolution and against direct creation was overwhelming already in Darwin's days, which was the reason his controversial views eventually were accepted by the majority of scientists and other intellectuals (including many Christians). Today, the evidence is stronger to an extreme degree. Especially after the discovery and development of genetics, the fact of evolution simply cannot be denied by any rational person who is aware of the facts. Hard words, but they can be backed up by hard facts.

    I will simply outline one line of evidence, actually in itself sufficient to establish large-scale evolution as a fact. Take note that much more evidence is available.

    DNA evidence has a tremendous prestige in courts of law, for a good reason. And for similar reasons that a court can e.g. conclude pretty conclusively kinship between a father and a child, science can conclude we are very closely related to e.g. chimpanzees, and related more distantly to all other species on this planet.

    It is a well-published fact that we share about 99.7 % of our DNA with the chimps. The most interesting fact in this context, however, is related to what is called psuedocode or junk code.

    The question of common descent between humans and other species on this planet is no longer up for debate. And it's the DNA that gave us the ultimate smoking gun.

    You may be aware that some map makers put "copyright traps" into their maps. That is small irregularities not important for the map's purpose. If someone copies the map and tries to sell it as their own, including these intentional "errors", any court of law will convict them of copyright violation. It will be beyond reasonable doubt that they copied from the map, not the terrain. In the same way some students have been caught cheating by presenting works downloaded from the Internet as their own, and just changing a few sentences. If they are caught duplicating grammatical and spelling errors from the original, it is almost impossible to make anyone believe their are coincidental.

    As it is, our DNA is full of errors. While it is true that the replication of DNA is remarkably accurate, errors do occur. Every human being has a number of mutations in their code. Most such errors have no consequences for the phenotype (= us).

    However, as times goes by and evolution changes species considerably, this means a lot of junk accumulates in the DNA. In fact, most of the DNA we have in us -- and this is true about every other organism -- is useless junk code, so-called pseudocode. Some of it contains copies of code used elsewhere (reduplications). Lots of it is code that was used by some of our ancestors. And, when we see that we share these meaningless sequences with chimps and other species as well, it is direct evidence to the fact of evolution.

    Bits and pieces of this pseudocode made sense once, when it was carried in our distant ancestors. Some of it was perhaps used to make gills on a fish, to control the temperature in one of our reptile ancestors, or, more recently, they provided the tails that some of our ape-like ancestors had. And in the latter case, we can see direct evidence quite often: it is not uncommon that a human baby is born with a visible tail (promptly removed with modern surgery), a throwback to our ancestors and direct evidence that we descend from a species that had tails. If this is not direct evidence for macroevolution, what is?

    Other species have more dramatic throwbacks. Sometimes, a whale is caught which has the bone structure of hind legs inside its fish-like body structure. Whales with legs? Yes, throwbacks to the time when the ancestors of whales walked on dry land. This is absolute, undeniable evidence that the whales descends from land animals, just as the theory of evolution predicted. If this is not direct evidence (or proof, as many would say) of macro evolution, what could possibly be?

    In the same way, we know that modern birds have genes for teeth, even though no modern bird has teeth. By transplanting tissue from the jaw area of bird embryos elsewhere, experiments have been able to see birds develop teeth in our days! Why should birds have genetic "blueprints" for teeth in their DNA if it was not true that ancestors of birds did indeed have teeth?

    No creationist should be allowed to repeat their silly assertions without being called to task to reply to this question: If we and other species were created directly, how come we have genes for tails, birds have genes for teeth and whales have genes for legs, genes that are sometimes actived today? In the creationist world, such a thing would be impossible. In the real world, one where all species is the result of evolution -- descent with modification -- such throwbacks are both possible and exactly what we should expect.

    This is just one reason we know that evolution is a fact.

    - Jan
    --
    "Doctor how can you diagnose someone with Obsessive Compulsive Disorder and then act like I had some choice about barging in here right now?" -- As Good As It Gets

  • ashitaka
    ashitaka

    Interesting, Jan. I too am looking at evolution. I think it is incredibly interesting and comforting in a way.

    I still believe in God, but it's a sort of agnostisism-athieism. I think that He made the universe, but let the order of life do it's own thing.

    But, my opinion changes day to day.

    thanks for the post.

    ashi

  • Satanus
    Satanus

    Janh

    That's strong stuff. I read in a science mag some time ago, that some sections of the human genome were the exact duplicates as in some bacteria or plants. I wasn't able to find it when i looked recently. Has someone else seen this?

    SS

  • patio34
    patio34

    Jan,

    Thanks for that very logical, coherent post on evolution. As you said, it is just one proof of evolution.

    Pat

  • Simon
    Simon

    Interesting about the whales - I'd heard that before but had forgotten about it.

    There is a BBC series on here at the moment called "Walking with Beasts" (a follow up to "Walking with Dinosaurs") which shows the way horses, dinosaurs/birds, whales etc... develop over millions of years after the mass extinction of the large dinosaurs. Watch out for it as it's really well done.

  • Julie
    Julie

    Hi Jan,

    Thanks for the great post. I recently saw a portion of a documentary on PBS that was about evolution. I happened to catch a section on DNA, fortunately. I was amazed to see the actual DNA side by side with that of a chimp. How close they are!! Then the scientist went on to do comparisons of other animals with DNA of humans and explained that the bigger differences are because the other animals evolved differently than us longer ago than the chimps. Our most recent split is with the chimps and that's why their's is the closest match. I found the whole thing remarkably logical.

    You summed it all up quite nicely. I would be very interested to see a creationist's view of your post.

    Take care,
    Julie

  • jayhawk1
    jayhawk1

    Jan, your DNA post on evolution is very well thought out, and brief. I like that! When I study the fossil record, the same conclusion can be made. When the continents divided, that is when you can see life evolve into its current state. Evolution is always in motion too. Some species become extinct, while other new species are discovered. Some mutations are defects, while other mutations are improvements. If we could live about 500 years, we would see a number of differences in tropical plants an animals for instance. Further, is there no doubt, that Mamoths are larger, hairier, versions of elephants? Again, thanks for your thoughts.

    "Hand me that whiskey, I need to consult the spirit."-J.F. Rutherford

    Jeremy's Hate Mail Hall Of Fame.
    http://hometown.aol.com/onjehovahside/ and [email protected]

  • anewperson
    anewperson

    Whether all agree with you or not, Jan, we can agree that you have presented your evidence in a logical way, which is quite admirable.

    All the same even with what you present we can still take the opposite view, namely that life came into existence as fully distinct species rather than slowly or even fairly quickly evolved.

    How so? Well, one can argue that when birds came into existence the so-called junk bits of genes for teeth were already pre-programmed into their genes. Why? Possibly so that if necessary birds could later on develop teeth, though such rarely ever is seen.

    And so the wheel keeps turning in the debate. But to many of us, Jan, it is a moot point as to which view is right insofar as to whether or not "a source for all existence exists," i.e. God.

    If God created directly or if God created indirectly (by evolution), regardless, God (source of existence) still exists. To believers to deny that God exists would be to deny that existence exists, which is clearly illogical.

    Going one step farther, that source provides many nice things for us like sunshine, food, water, a pretty planet, air, life itself. Any good father is a provider, a gift-giver. So it is also not illogical to call that Source our Father.

    I can pinch myself and know it, Jan. Ergo, I exist. So do all we humans, whether we wish to argue against that too or not. Existence consists of both what is (matter, energy) and what is not (space, emptiness, non-materialism). It has always existed and always will. It or better described, He, acts just like a good Father.

    Interestingly, the Hebrew for to be/being/existence is "hayah" from which is derived Yaweh or the short form Yah, also rendered as Jah or Jehovah.

    I believe I have made my own points and now will sit back and see what others may say.

    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jahchristian

  • bigboi
    bigboi

    Jan, this is something I've always wondered about. I never thought that i wld ever see the subject brought up because I thought that stuff like this never happened. I'm floored by this! If you have any links to and other evidence of these occurances, would u mind posting them?

    ONE....

    bigboi

    Murder is a tough thing to digest. It's a slow process and the WTBTS's got nuthin but time.

  • Marvin Shilmer
    Marvin Shilmer

    Hi, Jan

    I appreciate your thoughtful comments on the merits of evolution. It is true that junk code in DNA is a fact, and that it is evidence of some sort of kinship from creature to creature. But whether this junk code or kinship stems strictly from evolution or from common building material of a creator is yet undecided scientifically, as far as this non-scientist can tell.

    The reason I fall down on the side life as we know it having a creator is because science can prove that life begets life but it has yet to prove that the inanimate can produce life. Until science proves that the inanimate can produce life then evolution has a critical weakness. As for who created any creator, I don’t know. But I do not let the unknown decide my beliefs. My beliefs are decided by what I know. I know life can beget life. I do not know that the inanimate can produce life, and evolution depends on this as a fact.

    Hopefully my beliefs on this subject will continue growing as long as I can learn. Sound beliefs must accommodate all relevant facts. On this subject I continue looking for relevant facts in order to grow in every aspect, including spiritually.

    Thanks again for your input on this subject. I enjoyed it.

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