The State as Aggressor (page 2)

hamilcarr

The law among nations is the law of the jungle, there is no greater power than the nation state at this time

http://www.icc-cpi.int/home.html

BurnTheShips

http://www.icc-cpi.int/home.html

And if member states refuse to submit to ICC hearings? What then?

BTS

Here's an example of where the UN was highly effective, without resorting to violence: South Africa. Apartied is dead. Years of economic sanctions and the internal will of the people finally did it in.

Also, the greatest number of conflicts in the world today are internal, not international. (Yellow flames on the attached map)

http://nobelprize.org/educational_games/peace/conflictmap/conflictmap.html

The force of the people do influence conflicts. No self-respecting statesman will start a war these days without first gaining popular support.

BurnTheShips

the internal will of the people finally did it in.

There is the real reason. There was a virtual civil war to end it. The government was losing control and ending apartheid was the only way to quell unrest and it was hurting the economy. The international pressure was an afterthought compared to these factors.

Also, the greatest number of conflicts in the world today are internal, not international. (Yellow flames on the attached map)

Every yellow flame there represents either a revolt against a state, the fight to form a new state, or a fight to control a state. All of them.

However, the scale of death is multiplied greatly when it is a state that agresses.

BTS

LockedChaos

Libertarians have some interesting concepts.

I examined the philosophies many years ago.

I came to find that though I agreed with
many of the concepts in essence, in practice
many were a different matter.

As with most concepts and philosophies,
the radical fringes tend to rise to the top
and begin to promote/impose a type of
fundamentalism. The extremes take the spotlight.

An interesting exception was with
Alan Greenspan. Think or say of him as you will,
the very job he held as chief of the Federal
Reserve seemed to fly in the face of their tenants.

I found the same to be true with the philosophies
of Objectivism and Capitalism. They all have
some interesting aspects and some worthy goals
but the become almost cult like in their actions.

I would also place political aspects in the same camp.
Worthy aspects but prone to extremes.

jgnat

You are quite wrong, burntheships. It would be very neat if human conflicts could be so easily dismissed as being between the innocent individual and the undefined "state". You've made your own conclusions on these events but I disagree.

If you are serious in your pursuit of truth, let's do a decent investigation on an event. Do you want to start with aparteid?

BurnTheShips

If you are serious in your pursuit of truth, let's do a decent investigation on an event. Do you want to start with aparteid?

No I do not. The subject of the thread is "The State as Agressor". Apartheid, which you brought up, is a classic example of this agression and repression. To brutally hold down the majority of the population of SA required the apparatus of the state. Apartheid was state imposed. It is just another case, albeit extreme, of massive social engineering gone mad. Fortunately, this system has been taken apart (though the reverse-discrimination of the new system is not much better). If you wish to discuss apartheid with me in a different context, perhaps you should start another thread. BTS

hamilcarr

Libertarians have some interesting concepts.

In theory. On the sidelines.

Of course, in many cases they're right. I always compared libertarians to the Celtic warrior-tribes often employed by British kings. They are incredibly useful as allies in battle, but you wouldn't want them to actually run things.

BurnTheShips

Of course, in many cases they're right. I always compared libertarians to the Celtic warrior-tribes often employed by British kings. They are incredibly useful as allies in battle, but you wouldn't want them to actually run things.

I love the old Celts! And I admire their warrior spirit.

But it is wrong to think that Libertarians would run much of anything.

BTS

SixofNine

How hypocritical then, that libertarians have formed a political party and take an active role in matters of the state.

The State as Aggressor

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