I re-entered the Matrix

by digderidoo 51 Replies latest jw friends

  • digderidoo

    Recently i posted a thread that i no longer wish to take part in discussions here as i felt uncomfortable WT bashing. However, i feel that i have to start posting if only from time to time as i am at a very different stage as i was only 4 weeks ago. I know i haven't been 'disfellowshipped' from here, even though i've disagreed with forum rules recently or have i 'disassociated' myself from this board as i still feel myself drawn to it.

    I'll try to be brief with this, but the content could be drawn out.

    As some of you are aware i have been battling alcoholism or alcohol dependency as i prefer to call it now (thats another story). I feel as though i am getting the upper hand so don't really want to dwell on this. This said, for the last six months i have had 3 episodes of about 7 weeks sober. Although i haven't been consistent, i think 21 weeks out of 26 is doing good, the other 5 weeks were attempting to control so they were not a drunken blur anyway. I am in this third episode and still feel as though i never want to drink again.

    In being sober i have begun to examine my WT issues. I left 11 years ago, i thought i put these issues to bed back then but obviously i just drank through it. 11 years ago i went through a divorce of a dub, she came out looking good as she was the one who carried on going to meetings. This i suppose recently has left me thinking that i was forced out of the org, rather than came out of my own free will.

    From time to time over the years i have thought of attending a meeting, the one thing that has stopped me is the 607 issue. Recently i have researched this and although there is much evidence pointing towards 586/7 it is however not conclusive. This began me thinking why should it stop me from attending a meeting.

    The AA structure is based on a spiritual program, so i guess i have been considering spiritual things.

    Because of these reasonings 4 weeks ago i went to a Sunday meeting. First time in 10 years, i re-entered the Matrix. I made it clear to elders that i didn't want to be hassled, they agreed. I went and left straight away.

    I must admit i enjoyed. The talk was based on a balanced life style and how some of the ' world ' have a party life style, become alcohol dependent, etc, etc. From then i went to a further 2 meetings and went to the Saturday at the convention. I enjoyed these meetings too, but can't help feeling its because of nostalgia.

    I have no issues with the major critisms mentioned on this board. The UN scandal i never really had issues with, don't know why. The 607 issue i did, but with that i doubted my own thinking on it. The blood issue, i feel is an adult choice-kids a different matter though. The NWT issues, i feel other critisms can be aimed at any translation, due to the fact that English is not the original writing.

    With these in mind my anti JW stance really has mellowed over the years. So why not go in to the matrix and see for myself in a sober state with a clear mind, as to what it's all about. I only left all those years ago because it was the easy option. It was time to wrestle the power for myself, think for myself and look at all these issues with a clear head.

    Two major things i now have problems with we're mentioned on Saturday convention, let me ellaborate...

    1) A 'sister' was being interviewed from the platform. She told how she felt so much pressure to go to university. She wanted to go into pharmacy. To cut a long story short, you guessed it she gave it all up to pioneer. The interview ended with, ' and what job do you do now?', she replied, ' i work in a coffee shop part time', immediately the audience applauded. What??, i thought. Am i missing something here???

    2) Another 'sister' being interviewed as to how she stayed away from her brothers wedding, who had left the 'truth'. Caused massive problems within the family. Her brother was devastated, unbelieving father couldn't believe her stance. But ' she stood strong and put her faith in Jehovah '. Again, applause, applause. "you bitch", i thought.

    Ok whenever i have made critism as to peoples actions, i have been told it's just the individual. These two examples however were being given from the platform.

    I cannot be a part of an organisation that supports these stances. This said, I would not rule out going to another meeting, i feel as though there is a spiritual side to me, but i don't think the org can fulfill this. It was nice to see old faces, it was nice for my kids to see there family, cousins, etc on their moms side.

    Anyway, thought i'd post this and where i am. Yet another little step in my life of sobriety.


  • Honesty

    Let the Watchtower Society's literature help you with the 607/586 dilemma you have:

    Here is some information regarding what the Watchtower has printed in regards to the Babylonian kings and how the lengths of their reigns can be calculated to arrive at the date of the destruction of Jerusalem by Nebuchadnezzar. If you're a dunderhead on Neo-Babylonian history (like me) you've probably remained totally clueless whenever the subject of the chronology leading to back 607 B.C. as the date for the destruction of Jerusalem by Nebuchadnezzar comes up. It turns out this stuff is a piece of cake! Using ONLY comments by the Watchtower Society and one scripture we can rather easily see their chronology regarding the destruction of Jerusalem. There is really not much to learn here, either: No astronomy, no neo-Babylonian tablets, and no confusing Bible versus will be presented. Just the names of five people and several quotes from Watchtower publications will be used. Also, there is no need to quibble over things like regnal years, ascension years, cardinal and ordinal numbers, etc. Remember, 607 B.C. is a full 20 years earlier than the accepted date of 586/87 B.C. and all the tinkering with a few months here and few partial year reigns there cannot make up a difference of twenty years. Another tricky part to remember is that in order to calculate dates we have to count BACKWARD as you go forward when dealing with time before Christ came to earth. We have to start AFTER the date of Jerusalem's fall with a date and event that is agreed upon by both the WTS and secular historians. From this date we will count backward by counting forward. That date is 539 B.C., the date that Babylon fell to Cyrus the Mede. Keep in mind we are trying to find the date Jerusalem fell.

    Insight on the Scriptures published by the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society in volume 1 on page 425 under "Chaldea" has a complete list of the Babylonian kings from Nabopolassar to

    "Particularly was this domination manifest during the seventh and sixth centuries B.C.E. when Nabopolassar, a native of Chaldea, and his successors, Nebuchadnezzar II, Evil-merodach (Awil-Marduk), Neriglissar, Labashi-Marduk, Nabonidus, and Belshazzar, ruled the Third World Power, Babylon."

    Insight on the Scriptures published by the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society in volume 2 on page 480 under "Nebuchadnezzar" tells us that he ruled as king for 43 years:

    Second ruler of the Neo-Babylonian Empire; son of Nabopolassar and father of Awil-Marduk (Evil-merodach), who succeeded him to the throne. Nebuchadnezzar ruled as king for 43 years...

    An article entitled, "The Rejoicing of the Wicked Is Short-lived" on page 29 in the January 1,1965 Watchtower magazine lists the regnal years of Nebuchadnezzar II's successors from Evil-Merodach to Nabonidus who, in this article the Watchtower confirms was ruler of Babylon when Cyrus conquered it in 539 B.C.:

    Evil-merodach reigned two years and was murdered by his brother-in-law Neriglissar, who reigned for four years, which time he spent mainly in building operations. His underage son Labashi-Marduk, a vicious boy, succeeded him, and was assassinated within nine months. Nabonidus, who had served as governor of Babylon and who had been Nebuchadnezzar’s favorite son-in-law, took the throne and had a fairly glorious reign until Babylon fell in 539 B.C.E.

    Let's summarize (remember we have to go backwards starting in 539
    B.C. with Nabonidus):

    Nabonidus ruled Babylon until it fell in 539 B.C. to Cyrus.

    Labashi-Marduk ruled for 9 months.

    Neriglissar ruled for 4 years.

    Evil-Merodach ruled for 2 years.

    Nebuchadnezzer ruled for 43 years.

    17 years + 9 months + 4 years + 2 years + 43 years = 66 to 67 years.

    Starting at 539 B.C. and going back 66/67 years we arrive at 605/606 B.C. for the start of the reign of Nebuchadnezzer.

    2nd Kings 25:8-10 tells us that Jerusalem was destroyed in the 19th year of Nebuchadnezzer's reign, so if we go forward 19 years from 605/606 B.C. we will have the approximate years of the destruction of Jerusalem.

    Nineteen years after 605/606 B.C. brings us to 586/587 B.C. which agrees with all secular evidence.

  • carla

    Congratulations on your sobriety. Have you considered the hundreds of other spiritual avenues you could explore in your newly found non alcoholic haze? Why must it be the jw's or nothing for some people (not necessarily you in particular)? I understand the nostalgic feelings one may get and the wish to reestablish old relationships that are only allowed if you went back and tried to get in good standing again. What I don't understand is how a person can live the life of a jw, see all the abuses and still hope that maybe things really aren't that bad and all the 'stories' are just a few isolated stories that keep getting rehashed. I have been on the 'boards' for a number of years now and what I see is extreme mental, spiritual and physical abuses that are rampant within the jw org. The 'stories' come from all over the world, they are all similar, be it the family relationships, sexual abuses, spiritual issues, etc.... If the stories come from all over the world with the members all crying out in the same way, surely there is a real problem. The problem is not with individual thinking they must have the problem, they are not spiritual enough, and so forth. It is the org itself.

    Good luck on your journey and again, congratulations on your sobriety! Wishing you all the best.

  • Awakened07
    Ok whenever i have made critism as to peoples actions, i have been told it's just the individual. These two examples however were being given from the platform.

    How many things can one blame on 'fallible men', to totally excuse the organization, and still see it as God's mouthpiece? The Watchtower are not afraid to point out all the actions taken by other religions' clergy and members and say it dooms their entire religion, but why are those things not simply similarly the actions of 'fallible men'? Sure there is also a big difference in doctrine, but my point is that they are not slow to point out any wrongdoing on other religions' part which can be said to be caused by 'fallible men'.

    How many flaws can God's own organization be allowed to have? Does He just not really care too much if they teach and/or do wrong things? If so, what's the point of having one organization?

    By all means, go back the the matrix. But it doesn't seem like you'll be a happy, well adjusted JW over time, with the reservations you voice in your post. You can't openly criticize (in other words, have your own opinions on the matters) for too long before you'll again find yourself in trouble. And - you'll have to go out and preach the things you don't agree with to other people, because if you state your own private opinions and feelings about certain issues at the 'door', it won't take long before you'll find yourself corrected by well-meaning elders.

    Of course meeting old friends etc. etc. will feel good at first, but I'm pretty sure that novelty will wear off.

    All that said, I do understand what you mean, and I wish you good luck in whatever choice you end up making; it's your life to spend as you like. And I don't mean that in a sarcastic way or tone.

    But think it over. There are many other paths to take.

  • Lady Zombie
    Lady Zombie

    First, good work with controling your drinking!

    Don't you just hate the "fine examples" of JW living that they parade around? So, flushing one's life down the toilet and living in poverty is noble? Those who want an education so that they may live a more comfortable and enriched life are made to feel sinful and worldly.

    You just keep doing whatever works for you in order to remain sober and sane. No one has the right to judge you.


  • digderidoo

    Let me make it clear, i am not going back to be a JW. I felt a draw to it, i want to examine it with a clear head.

    I have posted this because i don't think i will go again.


  • sacolton

    Welcome back to the real world. Hope you'll stay.

  • digderidoo

    Good post carla.

    It is time for the org to accept responsibility for individual actions. I have thought of exploring other avenues, but i guess what stops me is my relationship with family members. You see i am not disfellowshipped just faded away. Guess it would be easier to explore these avenues if i were already disfellowshipped.


  • sacolton

    So, Dig ... what's your stance on the "no-blood" issue? Should the WTBTS be held responsible for being blood-guilty?

  • Mickey mouse
    Mickey mouse

    Honesty, I just wanted to say thanks for that review of the Babylonian dynasty. I still remember when reading about it in the Daniel book that it seemed unnecessarily complicated. Now I know why.

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