Hi there, I posed the question to a pioneer who had been giving me bible studies. My question was quite simple: "In John 3:16, doesn't it say that whosoever believeth in him will have eternal life? My understanding of this scripture is that eternal life is given to ALL who believe in Christ and believe he died to save sinners." The response I received didn't really answer my question, or perhaps it is hidden somewhere in the response? Can anyone help me interpret this? Addressing your question – John 3:16 Jehovah has never rescinded is promise of everlasting life on earth for the ones that want to follow him and do his will. John 3:16 assures us that by that ransom, that superlative gift, we have that wonderful reward to look forward to. Hebrews 5: 9 talks about Jesus’ activities in accomplishing this. Matthew 20:28 records that he would give his life or soul for whom, us. The ones that want to do his will as he did and is doing his Father’s will. Matthew 28: 18-20 He has received all authority and states our responsibility. As we walk in his ways we will show that we are not like Adam, the one that alienated us from our loving Heavenly Father, but wish to do his will forever. As stated at John 5: 28, 29 guarantee of life. Romans 6:23 Where Adam sold us into death, Jesus gives life. Under Jesus’ 1,000 year reign we have opportunity to show our delight and appreciation for all that Jehovah and Jesus have done by continuing to learn. Today our guide book is the Bible lovingly preserved for us by our Father.
Need help responding to a pioneer
by megs 24 Replies latest watchtower bible
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Billy the Ex-Bethelite
Hi megs,
The real JW answer would be something like... In the New World Translation of John 3:16, it doesn't say "believe" it says "exercise faith". Believing isn't enough, you have to have works. You need a Faithful and Discreet Slave's Governing Body to tell you what to do and what not to do. Everything you do, say, and think should be in line or you don't really have 'faith'. Anyone that doesn't do as directed by the Governing Body of the Faithful and Discreet Slave doesn't have a relationship with Jehovah or Jesus and will be destroyed at Armageddon... which is coming very, very soon.
Anyone else want to further elaborate on JW interpretation that JWs won't tell a "Bible Study" out loud?
B the X
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megs
Methinks I should rev up my studying if the end is coming as soon as I'm hearing it is!! LOL I come from Martin Luther's school of thought which was justification by faith alone, so it's kinda hard for me to get my head around submitting x number of hours per calendar month to an earthly body to be deemed worthy for salvation by God... That sounds a bit cynical I suppose... My stance seems to be supported by Romans 4:5, which says that "his faith is credited as righteousness", works notwithstanding. I think you've given me some clarity on where she's coming from though, thanks BtheX :)
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Lady Zombie
If I might suggest something, insist that she studies with you using only the bible, and not WT publications + a wee little bit of the bible.
JWs are the masters of circular arguments backed up with their own publications.
The simple crux of the matter is, the JWs have always encouraged people to "read their bible" and they go around offering "free home bible studies." Therefore, it's only fair to insist that they put their money where their mouths are.
Sure, the average JW has more knowledge of what's in the bible than the average Joe/Jane on the street. That's why people agree to study with them, because they wow them at first with their scriptural knowledge. But on the other hand, the JWs get pretty shakey when forced to promote their doctrine using just the bible.
That should address any doubts as to if the JWs actually have the truth.
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megs
Thanks for the tip LZ! I have to admit that I have more than passing knowledge of the bible, I had a dual major in theology and history in university... I've told this to my nice pioneer lady, and she seems willing to engage me. I took special interest in the protestant reformation, however never did learn about the JW's till my recent excursion into a uhh fringe religious movement shall we say. I am quite willing to become a JW, if she can indeed convince me that it is the truth.
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jwfacts
Debating doctrine rarely achieves anything, as a counter scripture can always be provided. This question opens up a debate about faith and works.
The real JW answer to your question is that belief in Jesus is confirmed by works (as Billy wrote) - "Faith without works is dead." James 2:26. There may be validity to that, but where the Watchtower falls down is in the way they define works. Works means belonging to the Watchtower Organization, plus doing good works such as preaching the Watchtower message. So the end result will be a discussion on whether Jehovah only works through the Watchtower Society. There is some information to consider at http://www.jwfacts.com/index_files/organization.htm
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Lady Zombie
Oooo good! You have secular education. That pioneer lady is going to have her work cut out for her! *evil laugh*
Most of the JW doctrine is, quite frankly and excuse my phrasing, pulled out of their ass by bending, stretching, and forcing scriptures to say what they want them to say. Like you and Billy were discussing about John 3:16. A JW will take you on a convoluted journey using their publications and oddly applied scriptures that "proves" that faith alone is not enough.
In fact, insist on using your own bible during your studies. She can use hers (New World Translation) and you can use yours. If you run across scriptures that are different from one another, watch as she'll try to tell you how the NWT is the most accurate translation. Ask her why. She'll probably tell you about the Greek and Hebrew "scholars" at Bethel.
Scholars?! Check this out....http://www.spiritwatch.org/jwnwt.htm
And so on.
There's truth and then there's JW "truth."
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drew sagan
Debating doctrine rarely achieves anything, as a counter scripture can always be provided. This question opens up a debate about faith and works.
you said it ;)
I think the underlining narratives that argue for the belief in the divine origins of the Watchtower movement are somewhat more interesting for conversation over any Bible doctrine. Most Witnesses have no grasp of what the religion really even teaches about itself. They just know that it is the truth and that the presence of certain "Bible truths" makes it so. -
megs
With the exception of Vernae?! Not sure what the relevance of that spiel was... Thanks to you all for your input. Your insights were helpful. I glean a lot from this board, there is a lot of brain-power around here!
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nameless_one
megs: I am curious about your intent with this study. I've followed some of your other threads, and know about your situation with your friend who is still deeply in. Are you pursuing this at the request of your friend, or as an intellectual exercise, or out of curiosity, or are you hoping to wake the pioneer up? I am just curious, your situation is interesting to me.
Lady Zombie: Thanks for posting that link about the NWT translation, I'd not seen that before.
vernae: PLEASE STOP. You are preaching to the choir here.