Can genesis be reconciled with science?

by inkling 19 Replies latest jw friends

  • inkling
    inkling

    Ok, so a recent thread about the latest WT antiscience content (found here: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/159423/1.ashx)
    Has got me thinking...

    It does seem really hard to hold active trust in the bible as the word of
    god without being leery of science. After all, an attempt to massage what
    is found in the bible so as to not conflict with modern scientific knowledge
    does feel an awful lot like compromise.

    However, this being the case I am also aware that most Christians are NOT
    anti-science creationists, right? Hell, even JWs were ok with (limited)
    Theistic Evolution in the 40s (http://www.seanet.com/~raines/theistic.html)

    So how does this work exactly?

    Specifically, how is the creation account in Genesis reconciled with the fossil
    record, and the subsequent model of biological history we have of the origin
    of life?

    First off the order of things being created...

    Genesis has it:

    1. Heaven and Earth
    2. Light (night and day)
    3. Sky (a dividing "vault", with water suspended above it)
    4. Dry land
    5. Plants and trees (with seeds and fruit)
    6. Sun, moon, and stars ("set in" the vault, as time keepers)
    7. Sea monsters, Fish, and birds
    8. Land animals (including "creeping things" and tame "cattle")
    9. Man and woman

    (or, in creation account 2.0)

    1. Heaven and Earth (free of plants because there was to rain, and no man to till the earth)
    2. Man
    3. Plants (as a animal free garden that Adam was placed into)
    4. Birds and land animals (in attempt to make a "helper for Adam)
    5. Woman (because the animals were not suited to the task)

    Whew...

    Ok, so besides disagreeing with itself, this story does not line up except in
    the barest manner with what we now know about the history of our favorite
    "pale blue dot"

    First, the order is hopelessly shuffled- In the fossil record:

    Birds appear late on the world stage, well after land animals and "creeping things"
    Seed plants appear well AFTER both sea and land life
    Fruit plants and grasses don't appear until after birds

    And, the myth shows blatant ignorance of many basic biological and astronomical realities:

    -How are plants supposed to grow before god got around to creating the sun?
    -Where is the sense in creating seeded and fruited plants before there are insects to pollinate them?
    -Why is the moon listed as a "light source" when in fact it is more like a spherical mirror?
    -Why are the stars recorded as being plopped in the sky almost as an afterthought when we
    now know they have all been around far longer that the earth?
    -"Day and night", being an arbitrary concept based on our odd on-again off-again relationship
    of our rotating planet to our sun, cannot exist before said sun is created.

    Ok, so it would seem that a "literal" reading of genesis is a lost cause so long as you are
    unwilling to check your sense of reality at the door. If we want to hold in to the bible still
    being god's word, we are left with the unavoidable conclusion that when god inspired the creation
    account he got it wrong on purpose

    ????

    I hear from "progressive" Christians that genesis is supposed to be read as an allegory, or metaphor.
    A metaphor for WHAT? What exactly was god trying to accomplish by, when it come time to offer his thoughts
    on the one of the most profound questions ever ("where did we come from), he gives us blatant misinformation?

    If genesis is meant not to be taken literally, then what is the point?

    [inkling]

  • Gill
    Gill

    The writer of Genesis was retelling a story which belonged to the Babyonians which probably belonged to an ancient civilisation way before the end of the ice age. Like many oral traditions, it suffered from the effects of 'chinese whispers syndrome' until it was written down, and probably furthur 'chinese whisper' like problems after being written.

    No, it can't be reconciled with science becasue it is just a vague piece of mythology which lacks sufficient detail that might give it body to be able to pick out any remnants of fact that just might correlate with scientific reality.

    It's like broken up, mismatched DNA.

  • darth frosty
    darth frosty

    Genesis can't be reconciled with the rest of the bible, let alone science.

  • Gopher
    Gopher

    It's quite well established that the first 11 chapters of Genesis are mythology.

    That poses a problem though, as Christ & authors of the New Testament refer back to early Genesis stories surrounding Adam, Abel, Enoch and Noah as if they were factual. Paul goes so far to say all scriptures (which would include Genesis) are inspired of God and beneficial.

    If the first part of the scriptures are untruthful as to the origins of life, then to believe God inspired the Bible is to believe God had his people believe mythology.

  • Awakened07
    Awakened07

    Yeah, but you see it's in the Bible, which is the word of God because it says so, and therefore it outranks science.

    You gotta try keeping up here...

  • Gadget
    Gadget
    If genesis is meant not to be taken literally, then what is the point?

    The way I understood it was not that Genesis was meant to tell us how we got here, but more to explain why. The explaining of the creative process is just to give enough background information to make the story plausable.

  • Amazing
    Amazing

    Genesis can be in good harmony with science ... including evolution. I embrace evolution and I am not threatened by it. If you look at the Hebrew words "made" and "formed" with respect to the creation of Adam, you will note that they are very distinct from the word for "create." Evolution is a process by which God formed the human species from the earth, and made man and women. When he breathed a "spirit" into them, they became living souls. I find evolution a good way to help understand Genesis. Also, the Bible is not a book of science, and so a good portion of it will be allegory or legend, but still useful.

    Jim W.

  • inkling
    inkling
    That poses a problem though,

    Yeah, no kidding. If it is the "Word of God", you would think he could get his story straight.

    What I want to know is how do millions of liberal Christians NOT have a problem with this?
    They have no issues with accepting that evolution is what actually happened, and that the
    genesis account comes from older Babylonian myth...

    How does accepting that not erode and dilute the perceived value of their bible beyond recognition?

    [inkling]

  • Lady Zombie
    Lady Zombie

    About the only thing Genesis got right was describing the formation of the Earth. It described the Earth being a formless mass. But even so, this could be describing two different things.

    1) Scientists believe that during the planet's formation, Earth was just a mass of molten rock and metal with no atmosphere and being pummeled by meteors. So ok, a "formless mass."

    or

    2) It could be referring to Pangaea, the one giant supercontinent that existed during the Paleozoic and Mesozoic periods, before it broke up and formed the beginnings of the modern continents of today. So ok, another "formless mass."

    That's about as close as Genesis gets to scientific accuracy.

  • inkling
    inkling
    The way I understood it was not that Genesis was meant to tell us how we got here, but more to explain why.

    Ok, taking just the creation account, what exactly does it say, to you, about "why" we got here?

    The explaining of the creative process is just to give enough background information to make the story plausible.

    But it's NOT plausible, that's my point. At least it wasn't for long. What good is "truth" with an expiration date?

    but still useful.

    What, to you, is USEFUL about misinformation as to the order of life appearing?

    [inkling]

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