Is Jesus God....a trinity/triune question.

serenaj92

Ok, Jesus refers to God as his father. Jesus also refers to himself as God saying they are one. John 14 Can I have some other opinions on this. I view them as a triunity. 2 beings with the holy spirit as the power shared by both, both ruling in the kingdom. Now Jesus as ruling as God until he hands the kingdom back over to his Father. I invite all other views, of all other religions please!!!

nytelecom1

my view is you are wrong

Moxy

did someone say menage-a-trois?

oh, sorry. never mind.

mox

anewperson

THE TRINITY DEBATE: First let it be declared up front that saying you are a a "Christian" rather than a trinitarian, nontrinitarian or some other term is less divisive and what is best. Also in fairness probably most trinitarians and non-trinitarians (also called unitarians) alike agree that the Father (God Almighty, YHWH, Yahweh, Jehovah, Yah, Jah, the LORD), Jesus Christ, and Holy Spirit are 3 but one in the sense of having a common purpose or goal. (Jn 14:11)This is true even though few nontrinitarians know that this view of "3 but with 1 purpose" is considered by many trinitarians to be an acceptable belief for trinitarians too. Trinitarians do also often insist that a Christian must agree that the 3 share the same age, power and knowledge -- which will be discussed.

True, in past centuries some trinitarians burned dissenters to death but in fairness nontrinitarians were also sometimes less than peaceful. Such trinitiarians did this even though they themselves could not explain how the 3 could equally share the same age, power and knowledge and some tried to simply call the trinity concept a "mystery," which did not make it any more acceptable to sincere skeptics. Happily however sometimes kinder, better educated persons have clearly illustrated, for example, that if a parent oak tree has existed ten years then one day a baby acorn is born, then although the baby acorn is only one second old after just one second past birth as a separate entity, that acorn's genes came from its parent and those shared genes go back to or are as old as those of the parent oak tree and in fact even as old as the genes of the very first oak tree. In a similar sense the 3 have different power and knowledge and yet through the original entity (God the Father or Source of our universe) also have always shared that original power and knowledge.

Such reasoning is more appreciated, and those who look it up, whether in a King James favored by many trinitarian fundamentalists, New World Translation of nontrinitarian Jehovah's Witnesses, or some other version find that although the Bible does not use the word "trinity" Romans 1:20 does use a Greek word often translated as Godhead or Godship. (Go ahead, look it up) Logically too, a word not being in the Bible does not disprove it exists as a concept anymore than we can say germs do not exist because the word germs is not in the Bible. Thus too some persons who favor the trinity belief have taught it in ways that do not fully clarify for example by emphasizing that the trinity is 3 "in one God" instead of more clearly saying the trinity is 3 in one "Godhead." Also, although the teaching when correctly understood and taught does not say that "Jesus the Son is Jehovah God Almighty," or "Jehovah is Jesus," nor deny that Christ said "the Father is greater than I" (Jn 14:28) etc, which is precisely what causes many nontrinitarian groups to teach it is “illogical” and “unacceptable” as also does this author who all the same seeks to be respectful. To their credit the more reasonable trinitarians have been willing to admit that others who are do not teach the concept correctly and have in fact mistaught some of those same things just mentioned and are commended for such honesty as well as willingness to reason..

This, then, summarizes the debate on the trinity concept and how it has been made unclear even by some of those who say they favor it. It also explains why, as said at the outset, it is better to consider oneself foremost a "Christian" and stick with that than to label oneself a trinitarian, nontrinitarian or unitarian or some other term. For instead of focusing upon word debates that are unloving and therefore not advantageous (1Co 6:12), the scriptures say it is better to focus on the two main things that God clearly does want which, as Christ also noted, are that we need to show love for God and our fellow humans regardless of different views (Ro 14:1-5) -- yes, even for those who sometimes seem unreasonable and hateful because Christ died for those as well. Welcome to fellowship all who are peaceful regardless. (Romans 14:1-5)

Visit our nonprofit Jah Christians egroup at the following website to request more free Bible literature (many topics) and information on Support/Friendship Groups, Bible Groups etc: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jahchristian, or in the Northwest USA leave message on recorder at 503-232-3747 for Mike Warren or else email him at goetgrimmel at aol.com; or contact Mike Terry who is in the Conway, Arkansas area via socialwork2001 at hotmail.com
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Utopian Reformist

Quid vecere? Otherwise known as "WHO CARES?"

The trinity is so trivial a matter, so overdone, over discussed and settled so many million times on this board that it is a grand waste of time and thought to repeat it again.

Just check out the earlier threads on this subject from the last two years.

Will Power

Hello all
Long time lurker, my first post
I don’t really have an opinion to offer but
I do know whose opinion I give no credit to.

A while back I “stumbled” onto an enlightening view held by the writers of the Society’s spirit directed literature.

On the CD, (newer one 99 or 2000) taken from WT June 15, 1979 as well as the purple Interlinear:

***it-2 393-4 Michael***
[Who Is Like God?]

“……………At 1 Thessalonians 4:16 the voice of the resurrected Lord* Jesus Christ is described as being that of an archangel, suggesting that he is, in fact, himself the archangel. This text depicts HIM as descending from heaven with a commanding call……..”

Who is HIM?
If one checks the footnote attached to the word Lord* in this verse one sees that it is none other than Jehovah HIMself who descends.

This of course is not what they teach. Using discernment with this little gem among many others, one can only test this spirit to see where it originates.

Any thoughts? Is this a 20 yr old typo? More deception? Just one more place where they missed editing the NWT? 1st Century conspiracy? Denial? Angel worship?

Been lovin the UN stuff, wish I could spread the WORD.

hillary_step

Hi Utopian,

Quid vecere? Otherwise known as "WHO CARES?"
The trinity is so trivial a matter, so overdone, over discussed and settled so many million times on this board that it is a grand waste of time and thought to repeat it again.

lol - I might be mistaken but reading between the lines I sense you are trying to tell us something.

serenaj92

The Trinity has a history that existed way back in mans earliest history. It is always a good idea to start ones research in history before theology as it often heralds the key to many puzzling questions.

I personally highly recommend J.Gwyn Griffifths 'Triads And Trinity'published by the University Of Wales Press in 1996. Well worth tracking down and it will answer many of your questions.

My best to you in your search - HS

RR

answer to your question: NO!

____________________________
"Pain is inevitable. Suffering is optional."

nytelecom1

the more important question is where did cain get his wife

freeman

This is a hard one to answer for sure. Trinitarians are so very sure of their position, then again, so are such ones as Witnesses. The Biblical proof of the trinity is somewhat wanting and IMHO not fully conclusive. On the other hand, at least one apostle that I am aware of believed Jesus was God. Remember Thomas saying to Jesus, my Lord and my God, or more correctly translated: the Lord of me and the God of me. I guess you could reason that Thomas made an error here, but then if you recall, he was never corrected, so I guess Jesus had no problem with him calling him that.

I remember a Lutheran minister trying to get me to explain this and me trying to tell him something like “Oh well Thomas was just very surprised to see Jesus and he was saying something OH MY GOD, like we would sometimes say today”. I think this is the point that he had enough of my BS and he said, “get behind me Satan”. Looking back, I was a total ass.

Also if I recall correctly, the martyred Stephen also made some last remarks that point to the divinity of Christ.

Then we have the early Christians, some taught by apostles themselves. Not sure about a trinity, however from their writings it is abundantly clear that many of these persons most definitely believed in the divinity of Christ. That is to say they equated Christ with God. In fact its so abundantly clear that, that the Watch Tower Society felt it necessary to misquote many of the early church elders, or fathers as they were also known. They put many of the misquotes in a their publication: Should You Believe In A Trinity? I ‘placed’ this trash all over the place and like a good little trusting JW, I never checked the sources. Hey just for fun get your hands on this lying publication and read it and then read the full text writings of the early church fathers they misquote from and you can see all the blatant lies. Their early writings are out on the net, forgot the link but they are out there or you could also go to your local public library.

Sorry for getting a bit off-track. So to answer your question; is there really a trinity? I myself don’t know, I’m not smart enough to know for sure, but like I have indicated, many early Christians believed in at least 2/3 of a trinity, that is to say the divinity of Christ. Hope this helps.

Freeman

Is Jesus God....a trinity/triune question.

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