The JW religion or the person, whose fault is it? (page 3)

ItsJustMe

Each individual is accountable for their own actions. Whatever the extenuating circumstances are, including religion, if a person takes action that results in harming another, that person is wholly responsible for their chosen course.

This might sound cold, because we like to excuse ourselves whenever possible. An good example of this, though, are the Nazis who were tried after the war and tried to say that they were not responsible for their actions. They were still held accountable by the legal system. Whatever series of events leads to a course of action, in the end it is the action that must be judged.

This was a terrible tragedy.

Utopian Reformist

ItsJustMe:

I do not want to excuse or minimize the brutal and vicious atrocity committed by these two fanatics.

However, in the case of the Nazi's tried at Nuremburg, the individuals were held accountable and executed appropriately, BUT the system or mother orgranization that created and empowered them to commit those acts had ALREADY been dismantled.

That is the major difference. These two may get the death penalty (GOOD, I wish I could beat them to death myself), or they may get life or they might be institutionalized. I cannot predict the outcome, but what happens to the mother organization after their day of justice is over?

Who holds the organization accountable for endorsing unclear practices?

California Sunshine

Hello,

I remember my Mom beating the hell out of me with a stick when I was about 10 years old for doing something I wasn't supposed to have done. I also remember her quoting that same scripture to me then about "sparing the rod". Like that justified what she did to me.

She was solely responsible for what she did just like those jdub parents are. The WTS should wear a "crown of thorns" for what they have taught all these years, but the parents must be held ultimatly responsible for this childs death.

It is heartbreaking isn't it.....

Sunny

ItsJustMe

Utopian - I can appreciate your point of view. Do you believe, though, that there are individuals out there who will commit attrocities regardless of their affiliation to organizations? I think it can be an unfair generalization to place the blame on the organization when each of us has the ability to exercise free will.

I do not, however, disagree that an organization can exhert powerful influence on a person and their ideals. And I also agree that an organization that promotes violence, etc. should be held accountable for that.

I can understand wanting to stop these acts at the root cause. However, we CHOOSE what we believe. I can hear a thousand times at a meeting that some children need physical discipline, but that doesn't mean I'm going to beat my children. I think people who go to these extremes have a lack of direction in their lives and are looking for justification when they point their finger at their religion.

When does personal accountability come into play?

Simon

It's one of those $64,000 questions isn't it...

I think it boils down to: are these people a product of the WTS teachings or does it attract that type of person.

For most people, they know when to stop BUT some of the bible teachings are ultimately dangerous to the few people who cannot draw the line.

Christianity in general, however much it proclaims it's teachings to be of love DOES teach a lot about beating people and killing non-believers as being a GOOD THING. Should we be too surprised when every now & again people follow the teachings to the extreme?

JT

just me says:

However, we CHOOSE what we believe

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I disagree --for children who are raised as jw the issue is much different- if the wt value system is all you are given and all you know from 2months till 16 - you can rest assured that the avg child will after 25,000 meetings have it ingrained into thier brain that THIS IS THE TRUTH whether they want to live by it or not

as an elder i used to talk to so many young folks who would say:

When i get myself together i will be back to the TRUTH-

OR I realize thaT this is THE TRUTH AND if i were to join anyone it would be the jw

so the kids or those who are brought up in this faith- they have an impact placed on them that i'm sure we will never really understand

i look at myself as an example - i truly believed this faith and tried myy best to do what i thought was the will of god

no colllege- pioneer go to bethel ,be a MS , Elder-- out in service

REACHOUT FOR GREATER PRIVILGESE, Etc THE PROBLEM is with the SYSTEM

it's like Slavery everyone didn't have slaves but there was a system in place that fostered that mindset of being better based on race

same with wt- i'm better based on relgion- same mindset just a different issue

i agree that there is no simply answer- i mean some folks would be an asshole without wt, but as i always say

WT CERTAINLY DIDN'T HELP if they already had issues in their life to start with

ItsJustMe

Having been brought up as one of JW's, I have to disagree with what JT has said. I still think the burden is on each individual to question what they have been taught is truth. I do agree that not everyone learns to question and that some situations make it harder to do this than others, such as being raised a JW, but I still think the burden lies on each person to ask the question "Why" and challenge their value-system.

I know I'm a little idealistic.

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larc

Folks,

Thank you all, for your thoughtful responses. It is a complex subject and hard to sort out.

It seems to me, that among the Witnesses there is a wide range of differences in child rearing. Some have enough sense to use discerment and use discipline in a moderate and appropriate manner. However, and this is a big however. I think the teachings do create a condusive environment for abuse. Those who have a violent nature are not reigned in by their social group for going too far. In fact, they may be applauded for open displays of severe discipline. Thus, I think that the person and the organization must share the blame.

Your many good comments were helpful in me formulating my conclusions.

JT

I WOULD offer one suggestion- you might want to take some time to do some reading on "High Control Groups"

you may have a different view when you understand how they work on the human mind

just a thought

james

The JW religion or the person, whose fault is it?

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