The JW religion or the person, whose fault is it?

by larc 28 Replies latest jw friends

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  larc

  I just read the tragic story of the man in Chicago who beat his daughter to death. I have read stories here and on SilentLambs about sexual abuse.

  My question is: How much fault can be placed on the religion and how much on the perversions of a particular individual? I frankly don't know the answer to this question.

  Perhaps the religion sets up certain conditions that can allow these kinds of horrific events to occur. On the other hand, most people do not succumb to such evil, even if the system makes allowances for it.

  Can you help me on this?
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  Sirona

  Hi

  I think that some people will do evil acts even if they are brought up in a secure and loving family. Some people have a mental problem and that is that.

  It is known that there is more occurance of mental illness in Jehovahs Witnesses than in some other religious groups, however, this may not be *caused* by the religion. Perhaps its just that those will a mental illness are more likely to join the JWs due to the acceptance they feel and the family atmosphere. Plus, shizophrenics and those with similar disorders are known to have delusions of grandeur ("Im better than anyone else") and the JW mindset fits that perfectly.

  I do accept that the stress that is placed on JWs may be a causal factor in mental illness developing. Guilt feelings and feelings of powerlessness may induce someone to do something horrible (go over the edge basically). One theory on the development of some mental illnesses is that there are biological predispositions which will develop if the person is found to be in a difficult environment. E.g. someone with a predisposition to schizophrenia may not develop it if their life is very balanced, but may develop it if they are an abused child. That is not to say that you cant develop it if you do have a balanced life.

  The Governing Body of Jehovahs Witnesses must bear some responsibility for the stress they put people under and the negative emotional state they can induce. This can aggravate someone who is already having mental / emotional issues into doing something wrong.

  I also strongly disagree with the society's advice on seeing mental health professionals. I remember one quote in a watchtower where they said that consulting a professional was like "jumping from the frying pan into the fire" because of the possible worldly influence. This, I believe is one of the main causes of problems amongst JWs with regard to mental health. They feel guilty even thinking about seeing a counsellor for example. They are not allowed to have hypnotherapy and some other treatments which the Watchtower condemn, and are not even allowed to "meditate" (by this I mean the relaxing meditation of yoga for example) to relieve their stress.

  Sirona
• 

  celebrate

  Larc:

  I have been wondering this same thing as well. Which came first, the chicken or the egg? Is it the religion that makes people do these things, or does the religion attract a certain type of person who then ends up doing these things? As a silent lamb, and a person who was also verbally, physically and emotionally abused by JWs, I think it is both. There is something to be said for the type of personality that is attracted to a religion that is that rigid, that drains all of the fun from things, that sets them up as being the "chosen" and all others are wrong, and anyone or anything that might be against them as being from the devil. Think about it, this whole religion is built around the world ending, and they being the only ones around. That takes a certain personality to want that and then to believe it.

  From that place, it is hard to live life. The more rigid the rules, the more acts of brutality. And, as children are about the only ones who are less powerful, a lot of the brutality is against children and women -- anyone too powerless to fight back.

  Obviously the religion fulfills some need, my guess is a need for power that people don't feel they have. People who feel powerless, will take it out on those who have less power.

  Man shall be called to account for every permitted pleasure he failed to enjoy -- The Talmud.
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  thinkers wife

  Good question Larc. And one I have often pondered. Abuse in many forms is running rampant in their org., IMO.
  I do believe their vow of secrecy lends more opportunity for this kind of thing to occur.
  I was not raised abusively by my JW parents. But because of their belief system, a rapist in the org. got away with it. I know because I was the victim. Also some young child molesters got away with it, I was also the victim. The not taking people to court especially your "brothers" had a large part to do with that.
  Also putting up with an abusive partner in silence was part of my life. Definitely due to the religious tenants I so strongly held to.
  The others brought up good points as well though.
  Perhaps we will never really know.
  TW
• 

  Frenchy

  Good question larc.
  I have a close friend of mine who was raised under extremely difficult circumstances. His mother and father were both drug addicts. The father was home only long enough to impregnate mother and she resorted to prostituting herself to support her family and her drug habit. We were poor but they were poorer. The children were physically abused by her and the multitude of men that frequented the house in which they lived.

  The children grew up, moved off, married and lead normal lives. I don't know of one (there were five) that so much as drinks or smokes. The boys live nearby and attend to their mother when she needs something. The younger one visits her quite regularly and I've never heard one of those kids ever say anything bad about their mother or father.

  I know some kids raised in very decent families with mothers and fathers that took good care of them that went very bad. One girl in particular continually blames her mother because her life turned out the way it did. Of course her mother never engaged in the conduct that she became involved in.

  Which was more to blame (or to be given credit) in these cases? I wish I knew.

  -Seen it all, done it all, can't remember most of it-
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  Mommie Dark

  People are ultimately responsible for their actions. However, rigidly authoritarian religions (and other organizations) tend to attract the sort of people who abuse power. Powermongering attracts powermongers. 'Pecking order' is basic animal nature. Ever seen a flock of chickens in action? Wolfpack? Ape family? Ever seen animal herds in drought or other times of stress? When unnatural stresses are applied, animals will sometimes tear each other, including their offspring, to bits. Ultimately, who suffers worst? The littluns.

  Watchtower=perversely unnatural stress. Hippo hierarchy in bad times. It's no wonder that some unstable types revert to the basest dog-eat-dog behavior when there is no appropriate outlet for the stress. Pressure exerted from the top down, combined with the constant reinforcement of guilt and feelings of inadequacy, can make a nutjob become a dangerous nutjob. Who is the prime victim of that nutjob? The lowliest and most defenseless available hippo downstream.
• 

  waiting

  Howdy larc,

  In my opinion -- nothing is black and white. The therapist I first went to impressed that on me time and again, until I realized that there could be "layers" of reasons & emotions, mostly intwined.

  I think the strickness of the WTBTS draws people who feel they want/need that. With a person who has a propensity to be violent - it's a good place to be. But the religion didn't wholly cause it, imho, they *just* openly encouraged "the rod of discipline" as current as the newest December Watchtower - and then don't conveniently define what that "rod" is. The average person equates a rod as physical, not wording, imho.

  My family is a perfect example: My father was raised by an alcoholic father & strick Nazerene mother - he was beaten etc., and grew up as a rapist, voyeurism(sp), beastiality, and a homosexual (not a result I am assuming). My mother was raised Irish Catholic (her mother) - but her English Protestant father beat the hell out of all 5 of his kids the whole time. He was kind enough to call them "dirty Irish catholic trash." My mother stood by and let my father do what he wanted to his kids.

  My sister was beaten severely as a child - definitely didn't beat her children. My much younger brother was beaten & raped by my father. He in turn raped my daughter. He's so out of touch with reality that unless his 3rd wife keeps him going, he doesn't - and he admits it. Has 5 children by 3 different women.

  Myself? I did spank my children - all 3. It was when, where, how I was raised and the community I was in as a young adult. To my knowledge, none of my community abused our children, at least it was never apparent. My children grew up to be very good adults - most likely in spite of me. I am continually amazed by them. If I were raising them in today's society, I most likely wouldn't spank, but that's speculation.

  My sister & I were 30 year jw's. My brother no religion. My father was an atheist, mother non-practicing Catholic. Grandparents Nazrene, alcoholic, strong Catholic, Protestant. Within that framework - the jw's actually behaved towards their children better than the rest.

  Society at large, our communities, religion, background, own peculiarities, economics and education all play into the picture. They have to - they are parts of us.

  waiting
• 

  HoChiMin

  larc,

  Sexual abuse of children will happen in all levels of society, whether religious or not. A deviant is a deviant no matter what they profess, Witnesses included. Physical abuse is a different story, although I believe there are similar propensities to cause harm, there is no apparent sexual drive with the child beater, although the two traits can be exhibited at the same time in some individuals.

  What can develop in Witness households is a rift between parents and children, particularly between fathers and sons but also daughters and spouses, where the performance of the parent is rated by the conduct of the children. The more in line, robot like, the children are the less the pressure for conformance to look good to the elders so one can move up in stature in the organization. It all goes awry when things look bad and the children can suffer enormous pressure. Beatings can be one consequence of a system bent on appearances to look spiritual in the eyes of god, with the human leaders interpreting the rules to their liking. It's a slow simmer situation, with some individuals more prone than others to snap and cause harm.

  HCM
• 

  TheOldHippie

  Just two lines on the post of Sirona, which I otherwise enjoyed:
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  "It is known that there is more occurance of mental illness in Jehovahs Witnesses than in some other religious groups"
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  I think one should be very careful when uttering such statements. "It is known" - among whom, research done by whom, etc. Even if research was made in one area, one country, one cannot deduce from that that such a phenomenon is universal. As for my part, I know of only one research project pointing to this, and that was done in Western Australia among prison inmates doing time for military refusal. Being locked up for a period probably would produce mental disorders among quite a few. That research has, however, been stretched to imply that close to all Witnesses had mental disorders, although the team behind the project had to intervene and ask people not to stretch their research in such a manner.
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  "I also strongly disagree with the society's advice on seeing mental health professionals. I remember one quote in a watchtower where they said that consulting a professional was like "jumping from the frying pan into the fire" because of the possible worldly influence."
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  This I do not understand, as people are encouraged to seek professional help if they / their closest feel there is need for that. I know a handfull of people who have needed and sought such treatment and who were helped indeed by it. No eyebrows have been lifted because of that, and of course should not be, either.
• 

  Nathan Natas

  I think it is completely appropriate to judge the WTS using the same criteria it uses when pronouncing judgements against Christendom.

  When a non JW commits an offense, the WTS wastes no time reminding its thrall that "by their fruits you will know them."

  What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. Hoist them by their own petard. The WTS has FAILED to be a force for good in the lives of those of its memnbers who need it most. Where did the killer parents get their wacked-out ideas? Where did the father discover the template that turned him into a tyrant to his own offspring?

  The blame falls to both the individuals AND to the so-called "moral authority" that guided and directed their spritual development.