Resolving the problems of the Genesis account.

by Mr. Majestic 11 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Mr. Majestic
    Mr. Majestic

    I am not trying to prove anything from what I am about to say. For me there is nothing that is provable at the moment. I don’t do belief. This is just trying to make a bit more sense of what I used to believe and asking the questions that I would like to have asked when I was going along.

    Assuming it is not a myth and looking into some of the implications, has anyone thought about the Genesis account like this before.

    The point I am about to make will mean that the biblical account of Genesis is not exactly true, or, has been tampered with. But considering that the account in the bible is very minimal may mean that this theory might be a little more plausible.

    Anyway, I have wondered why it was that the creator only made a little part of the world the "paradise" and didn’t make the whole globe into a "paradise". The answer from JW’s is that it would have given man a job to do and keep him occupied for a few years. That is not a bad answer I suppose, but it wouldn’t have taken that long, in the spectrum of eternity, to achieve that goal and then need other things to do. But if it was just to keep man occupied then why not make Adam cultivate the "field" himself into Eden? But he didn’t and there was a ready made "paradise" waiting for him.

    Then there is the issue of the "trees of temptation". Why were they there? Why would a creator have to test his "perfect" creation? Did he not trust what he had made? And there are other questions. How could a god see that the creation was "good" when there is so much evil in the works that he created? Some of creation is so very perturbing to say the least, and I have tended till now only to look at the evil of creation, and took my focus off of what is made very well and beautiful. But I only look at the evil as a response of the fact that the good has been over played from the religious perspective. But evil is there and doesn’t work in with a god of love and also doesn’t fit in with the ideal way that humans would like the world to be, although some might not agree.

    So this is the thought that I came up with. Could it be that the rebellion with Satan was already in full swing during the creation of the earth? When you read the bible the "star character" of evil has tried to destroy the creation all throughout the bible. He took out Adam, and then killed his son that should have fathered the "promised seed". Then he went out to corrupt the world by the "angles" that left heaven, and the earth had to be destroyed. Almost as soon as Noah had walked out of the ark there was Babel etc etc….. And all throughout he was trying to kill the means of salvation but was thwarted at every attempt.

    But if this was the situation that was going on before man was ever on the earth it would explain away a few things that we ascribe to god as the maker of "all" things. Before the flood the world was full of giant men that needed to be destroyed. What would stop it being the same thing happening with the dinosaurs? They were wiped out a few times it seems, but was that the same thing happening back then, that Satan was trying to destroy things before man was ever put on the planet? And is the evil we see in creation due to his manipulation, and not gods doing at all….?

    It would also explain why there was a test for man as soon as he was created. God would not have needed to test man but it was the demand of Satan that he was tested, as in the story of Job. It would also explain why the garden was so small, the only part of earth at that time that god was intervening in. The rest of the world at that time, the "field" as Genesis puts it, was in Satan’s control. That being the case, it would stand to reason why creation was so evil; being that Satan was manipulating the creation made, therefore the evil in creation was not gods doing at all. He made it good, Satan sabotaged it. This would explain why the Genesis account distinguishes the "wild beast of the field" and places them outside of the "garden" before Adam sinned. Adam after he sinned was banished to the "field" where life was not so cosy, and where the "wild beast of the field" already was. If he would have made the right choice and passed the test, then Eden would have gone all over the world and the evil in creation would have deceased.

    So it might be that we are ascribing the blame on god not knowing the full story, as in the case of Job. The interesting thing about Job is when Satan was hitting him, the blame was put to god. The fire out of heaven was described as " the very fire of God", although in that story it was Satan. When you look at the way that the comforters reasoned, it was always said that "God must have done it for some good reason", not accounting for Satan and what he was getting up to.

    There are a lot of implications that come from viewing it this way, like why did god let Satan do such evil and not do anything about it. Those debates go on and on. But I would like to know if anyone else has looked at it from the view above and has anything further to add to it.

    This is not out to prove the bible because it doesn’t. This is assuming there is any truth in the account and what might be a more plausible explanation. There are many other points and implications that I have not put in but I think this covers what I wanted to say….

  • Seeker4
    Seeker4

    No offense meant, but it sounds like you're trying to make sense of how Santa Claus makes it down all those chimneys all over the world on Christmas Eve with gifts for everyone in his sleigh.

    There's also no way to make sense of Genesis.

    S4

  • oompa
    oompa

    Majesty: It would also explain why there was a test for man as soon as he was created.

    There are a lot of implications that come from viewing it this way, like why did god let Satan do such evil and not do anything about it.

    I like your thoughts, but do feel there really can be no "explanation" if it is all "speculation."

    Secondly, there is so much "speculation" because virtually none of the account makes any sense at all. This point about Satan is excellent. He gets credit for Adam and Eves death and others...still in heaven to get the Job battle. Kills Gods son!.....still in heaven for thousands of years!.....c'mon!....................oompa

  • nomoreguilt
    nomoreguilt

    I believe that you are pretty close to how I feel about the bible and the god of tests. Adam, had already failed the temptation test. Why the need for the 2 distinct trees? Especially the one that would kill him? Ok, I feel that he wasn't allowed enough time to study for the test. He didn't really know that his god would actually allow this to happen to him, he trusted his creator, didn't he? Why shouldn't he.

    Now, on to Job. WHY would god allow Satan to test Job??? Is this the act of a LOVING god? Cmon now, Adam failed the test of universal soveriegnty, didn't he? So why would there be a necessity for a test on old Job?

    Just some nice and not so nice stories for the masses.

    NMG

  • Eyes Open
    Eyes Open

    Hi Mr. Majestic. I suppose if you find thinking around the stories intellectually stimulating, all well and good. No doubt people could summise all sorts of things related to the Genesis stories. But if it's genuinely bothering you and you want to make sense of the literature in the bible, can I recommend 'How to Read the Bible: History, Prophecy, Literature - Why Modern Readers Need to Know the Difference, and What It Means for Faith Today' by Steven L. McKenzie?

  • Summer wine
    Summer wine

    I just wish God was a little more honest and tell it like it is. Instead we have to base everything we see on "belief",,,,belief that he actually exists !!! Why would a loving creator not explain himself, show himself, so that his creation have the truth about what is going on. Why would a loving creator do everything in secret, so that we have to read a ridiculous book called the bible.

    If God exists ( I tend to think not nowadays) why would he test us vuneralble humans who dont have the whole picture and have our whole salvation dependant on what other humans tell us what is going on.

  • WTWizard
    WTWizard

    There was no reason for such a test. Jehovah wanted to see how much He could get away with in creating problems for mankind where none should have existed. It started with a penny ante item (or so it seems). The real issue was not the fruit, however--it was the right to think independently.

    There is no way to tell how far it would have gotten had they passed the first test. They might have been tempted with something to do with sex. It might have been a few generations--at some point, while everyone would want it, only a few designated people would get the "privilege", and it would have to be performed in some prescribed manner and with many rituals designed to lessen the pleasure. They might also have faced rules that could have created shortages. And, at the very least, they would never get to use their brains.

    God effectively wanted man to be bicameral in nature. Man, on the other hand, is better off (not just naturally inclined) to be independently thinking. Conscious thinking is natural. Left without any God, people would develop fully integrated, mysticism-free thinking on his own. There would be no myths or unnecessary guilt to impede thinking, and the solutions would be readily at hand. The path to maximum happiness would become apparent, and would be taken without any rules to follow. God didn't want that for man. Hence the tests.

  • oompa
    oompa
    summer wine: Instead we have to base everything we see on "belief",,,,belief that he actually exists !!! Why would a loving creator not explain himself, show himself, so that his creation have the truth about what is going on.

    I'm with you! Give me a burning bush, a quaking fiery mountain, a guiding light by night, maybe a seperating ocean would be nice, but I would even settle for a voice from the sky or a short walk on water................................oompa

  • Layla33
    Layla33

    I consider the Gensis account a "story" about how the world began. If you look at other cultures, especially Asia, which has the longest written history in the world, then you will also encounter a story or account of how the world began, it is part of traditions in culture.

    In the bible, you have the creation story for Jewish people, that was complied - if we are to believe - by Moses many many years after the supposed fact.

    There has never been an issue of resolution for me, as I never remotely took it as even a fifth of truth.

  • inkling
    inkling
    The point I am about to make will mean that the biblical account of Genesis is not exactly true, or, has been tampered with.

    Why would god allow such a awful thing to happen to HIS BOOK?
    And what makes you think that just because it may have been
    tampered with and changed that it was changed in a direction
    AWAY from something more true?

    Once again, what is the point of god writing something so fragile?

    But considering that the account in the bible is very minimal may mean that this theory might be a little more
    plausible.

    So a myth is bare of details, silent on things scientific, and someone comes
    along and fills the gaping holes with modern science? That is simply not
    very impressive. What makes it different from all the other thousands of
    creation myths our species has told?

    A spare myth may have numerous truth-shaped holes, but the shape of the
    truths that get inserted will change with every generation. That just makes
    the myth versatile and elastic, not true.

    Your theoretical myth is interesting, and might have some philosophic or
    metaphorical value, but that doesn't mean it has any relationship with
    reality.

    [inkling]

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