Is Satan actually the good guy, and Jehovah the evil usurper?

by 10p 41 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • 10p
    This is no longer a JW forum. Its a hate God and Jesus forum.

    Well, we probably are a bit off topic.

    But its a logical question - very similar in fact to what the Jews in Jesus day had to face. Their current religious idealogy told them Jesus was sent by the Devil. They had to think for themselves and ask a similar question : is the Jewish system actually run by Satan, and this son-of-the-devil-Jesus actually God/the son of God?

    Besides, I find this forum sometimes still somewhat closed-minded when it comes to topics about Jesus and the bible - probably because most are from USA. There are a number of people who often makes posts showing an unequivocal faith in Jesus, which is fine in itself, but then take it further and look down upon those that don't. If being an ex-JW should teach us anything, its that our faith should not be too strong, because we were wrong once, we could be wrong again.

    What about all those in Hindu/Muslim/Buddist/other countries who've left the JW's to become a non-Jesus based follower? IS this forum only for ex-JWs who agree to respect Jesus but are free to question Mohammed?

  • 10p
    I think you and Eve have something in common here ;-)

    yeah, exactly. Maybe she was right. Maybe she has been disrespected for too long. Without her and Satan, maybe we would be mindless automatons, just like the other animals - following a program of instinct.


    see - it doesn't hurt to think. just because you thought something, whether it is right or wrong, doesn't make you evil. that was the kind of programming we endured as JWs. Now we are free to think, at least, I hope WE are - I know I am anyway.

  • Perry

    "This is no longer a JW forum. Its a hate God and Jesus forum." - Exactly

  • SPAZnik
    ... just OBEY him!

    which version of him?

  • SPAZnik
    ... stop trying to figure him out ...

    sez who?

  • SPAZnik
    This is no longer a JW forum. Its a hate God and Jesus forum.

    Aww. I don't hate God or Jesus anymore than I hate Santa or the Easter Bunny. I pwomise!!

  • JCanon

    A few years ago I read Genesis again, and with a more objective mind, got the sense that Satan was actually telling the truth, and that god was just trying to have humans be his slaves. And god's reign over humans hasn't been all that pretty, in fact, its been downright awful.

    'course, I'm atheist now, so I wouldn't believe it even that way around - not literally anyway. But I wondered if the writer/editors of Genesis may have actually had this thought.

    Anyone know of any sources that explore this idea in depth?

    The insider viewpoint of this was it was all a trap to save the heavens and get rid of Satan legally. That is, basically in heaven it's like a debate. You have different views but no way to act on it. There were no real rules. Angels couldn't kill other angels and there was open "sex" if they wanted. There was no real way to turn thoughts into action. Thinking about a sin doesn't mean you commit a sin. Satan was like a murderer behind bars with no chance to carry out any murders while in heaven. So, Jehovah created the physical universe and MAN, and with him rules and the LAW with the penalty of DEATH.

    After all, what was the big deal with not eating of the forbidden fruit on penalty of death. So since you are ANALYZING, realize it was a very easy thing to do with such a high price. Thus Satan had to do very little to kill Adam and Eve. Satan understood what was going on, how infatuated Adam must have been with Eve when she first arrived, he was without another human for likely 30 years. So she meant a lot to him on many levels. But she was brand new, with the mentality of an infant so everything was new and a talking snake wasn't any more of a surprise than any of the other wonders. She was completely deceived when she ate and then offered some to her husband. Of course, he knew better, but likely decided he would rather die now than be without his beloved. That happens even now when somone first falls in love, right? Only thing is, Satan understood the potential of the death of Adam and Eve at this stage in that all his potential children would die as well. So killing Adam at this point would surmount to killing billions of humans all at once. Satan, of course, was unhappy and felt this would be worth dying for in protest to God. You know how some people hate someone else so much they want to commit suicide but before they go they want to take the person they hate out with them. So they kill that person and then kill themselves, like we hear some of these postal workers or others killing everybody they worked for then kill themselves. That's how Satan was, like a roaring lion seeking to devour.

    So basically God saw all that hate in Satan's corrupt heart and basically created mankind to see if Satan was going to put his money where his mouth was. He was good for it! But it was a trap. Satan felt somewhat self-satisfied if he wasn't going to die alone. He'd force God to kill him but along with him billions of innocent people because of God's law. What Satan didn't realize though, is while indeed the penalty was death, there was a means of redeeming the unborn children of Adam and giving them a second chance for life. Yes, they would still die after being born, but could be resurrected on Judgment Day and get a chance for eternal life. So in the end, Satan only killed everybody temporarily. The ones that would have been chosen to live in the first place still would live and those who would have not qualified for life would have been killed by God anyway, so it didn't matter that Satan was killing someone who was as good as dead anyway. The bad news for Satan is, that he didn't really kill anybody God wanted to live. Well he did kill them, but their deaths were temporary. But Satan's death would be FOREVER!

    That's the tricky thing about the "death penalty": it's only incredibly final if the death is permanent. If someone gets executed on a Friday and then Benny Hinn raises him up from the dead three days later there would be an outrage! The idea of the death penalty is permanence. So Satan got tricked.

    That's why he is so focussed to kill and deceive as many as possible. The more people he can deceive the greater his satisfaction and his own death, but of course, he is primarily focussed on the anointed and the chosen ones who will become Christ's bride in heaven. But even so, the truly worthy will not follow Satan. So yes, it's a loss and many will die perhaps because of Satan's intereference, but many will live and have eternal life, in spite of Satan's intent. In the meantime, Satan will have given up his own life for much less than he thought. Mankind and the easy way to kill billions at one time before Adam had children was the temptation held before Satan to jump off the cliff into oblivion, but that temptation was snatched from his possession.

    So there's no real glory in Satan's cause though he tries to think there is. I mean, he was DUPED into self-destruction. Satan prides himself over being knowledgeable and brilliant, a bright light, the mother of wisdom and sophistication, but her hatred for mankind didn't allow her to see around the curve. She didn't see God's option to raise someone from the dead after the fact. Of course, God will not be raising Satan back to life.

    So yes, Satan got the satisfaction of mass murdering billions, but it's short-lived with so many will be granted eternal life after death. Satan thought he was permanently killing billions but in fact ended up only temporarily killing billions, while his own death is permanent. Those who undergo permanent death with Satan would have been killed by God anyway for wickedness, so what really did Satan gain? Argue back and forth, but for sure, he ending up paying too much for what he got back.

    So the lesson is: Don't be such a biache with an all-powerful and much smarter god. There are consequences!

    Anyway, I was privy to what was going on in Heaven right after Satan got kicked out and the angels partied up there for three whole days!! So Satan was a major pain in the arse up there. They were glad she was gone. So beautiful as she is, she wasn't all that popular personality wise. They kicked her satin butt right on out of heaven!


  • tsar_robles

    So killing Adam at this point would surmount to killing billions of humans all at once>>>>>

    Interesting way to put it, JCanon

    btw, I'm curious about why you refer to satan as 'she'?

  • WTWizard

    Why did Jehovah prohibit the eating of that fruit? Did Adam's eating it deprive someone else of its use? Or, would the fruit have merely rotted and become worthless anyway, having thus gone to waste?

    All they wanted was to be able to think on their own. And that was what Satan was offering. We have no way of knowing what new oppressive rules Jehovah would have imposed had Adam remained a slave at that time. Jehovah might have made so many rules that they would not have been able to enjoy life. And that was what Satan was trying to prevent--he was asked to be the guardian of the human race, and he went above and beyond the call of duty. Satan actually saved the human race from a bicameral stagnation trap under a mean Tyrant.

    And what does Jehovah do in response to this? He cruelly punished man for wanting to think independently. To me, Adam was trying to become conscious, and Jehovah wanted him to remain bicameral. Satan led him to conscious thinking, and Jehovah puts a stop to it before Adam could have, with the help of Satan, developed totally mysticism-free thinking.

    That sounds eerily similar to what Jesus was trying to do. Jesus, like Satan, was out to save man from a life of stagnation under a harsh leader. Effectively, now that my eyes are open to things like that, Jesus and Satan were actually doing the same work! Yet Jehovah praises Jesus liberally while condemning Satan. Fair? Who says Jehovah Tyrant Baghead ever plays fair.

  • Satanus

    Biblegod is an idol. It's true that i don't care for idols. Jesus? I don't hate him. As i have said before, if he exists, he is welcome.


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