Will the logic and science of this world apply on Paradise Earth?

by HB 16 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • HB

    I feel a little stupid asking this question as I don't for one millisecond believe there is any possibility of a future Paradise on Earth, but I'm trying to work out how the people who do believe it visualise it and expect it to be. I suppose it's pointless to expect believers to have rational answers about such an irrational concept, but I'm trying to understand their thinking.

    (Being a complete newcomer to all things JW, I am learning a lot of fascinating stuff from this website. I came to this forum a short while ago for the answer to one question; my question was answered and has helped me with a friend who was getting involved with Jehovah's Witnesses and that should have been that, but I found the forum so interesting that I find I keep coming back! I have struggled with some of the JW jargon and abbreviations that regular posters use but am slowly getting there with it. (But I still don't know what is meant by a boasting session.) But the whole subject of this cult now has me hooked, just in an academic sense..... no chance of me being converted!)

    I have just read 'You can live forever in Paradise Earth'. It has the style of illustrations used in children's fairytale books, the real issues are not mentioned and I was left with more questions than answers. I would be interested to hear from someone how the following points are dealt with by the faithful, if indeed they are even thought about.

    As I understand it no one will die in paradise. I also gather that people will still live in families and have children, so it means couples will still have sex, (or will all children be virgin births?). But either way, after a certain length of time if no-one dies and sex continues, paradise will inevitably get over-crowded. How is that explained?

    Will animals die? If not how will the world not be quickly overrun with rabbits or rats etc, in view of the fact that apparently all predators and carnivores will be eating straw and dust?

    Lions will lie down with lambs so will the canine teeth of meat eaters disappear and their digestive processes change magically in a flash, or (dare I say it?), will their bodies gradually evolve to deal with their new diet?

    I read that on Paradise Earth "A man's flesh will become fresher than in his youth" Job 33:25. There is a picture of two elderly people who have been transformed into attractive young people aged about 20. I f everyone is young in body they will presumably also have the hormones of young people, which would mean all adults would have reproductive capacity, and babies could be being born to people aged 5000+ years old! Your Great Grandparents or whatever could look the same age as you and you could babysit their child who would technically be your Great Grand Uncle. Genealogists would never cope with drawing up a family tree.

    Also it would be so confusing for going on dates as a real 20 year old boy seeing a pretty girl he fancied could not be sure if she was actually hundreds of years older than him. Sex will presumably only happen within a marriage but it does stretch the imagination from the perspective of this world trying to picture people being on earth for say 10,000+ years but staying faithful to one person for all that time and for infinity beyond that!

    (No more soap operas on TV then, as they revolve around infidelity and vices of every kind!)

    Thinking of childbirth, presumably there will either have to be changes in a woman's physiology (oh no, not bigger hips!?) or a change in the size of the fetus at full term, as there will apparently be no more pain (Revelation 21:3 4). If childbirth was easy and painless, the birthrate would soar.

    It goes beyond my imagination to picture a world where there is no sorrow or hurt, If life is even remotely like it is now, how are people not going to have accidents? Are they saying that noone will ever trip over or cut their finger or fall off a ladder or worse? Or are they saying you could lose a leg in an accident but it won't hurt?

    Chapter 10 of the Paradise Earth book states that people will all live in comfortable homes and shows a picture of a big house with a large garden and perfect lawn. It also says "all will have pleasant work to do".

    The pictures only show smiling happy people wandering through fields of flowers by beautiful lakes or rivers with waterfalls and unspoilt countryside in the background, but presumably lots of people will have to be mining for raw resources and working in factories to manufacture the building materials to make the houses, etc.

    No one in the pictures is shown working at a sewage farm dealing with the waste from the houses. The people are all wearing nice clothes which must have been manufactured, their hair is neatly cut so someone must be working in a steel factory to produce the scissors to cut the hair.

    None of the pictures in JW literature show cars, aeroplanes or trains; no one is shown sitting in an office or using a computer. How is society going to function? I assume it won't revert back to the level of technology known in bible days, as otherwise nice modern houses as shown in the book couldn't be built, but if people will still have the luxuries of modern life like fridges, electric lights, gas heating, cookers and clean tap water, then there will have to be universities set up to produce clever people who can design these things. So policy on education will have to change.

    It seems there would still inevitably be a working class, a middle class and a ruling class. If people learn to completely eliminate their jealousy of others who have nicer jobs, or are content to live in a communist style system where all classes have the same priveleges and lifestyle, they will not be human in the sense that we understand the term today.

    Jehovah is supposed to be going to provide the perfect climate for food to be grown, which means it will have to rain quite a lot, so I can't quite see how everything will be perfect. It will have to rain on someone's picnic.

    I'm sure there are a million and one other illogicalities with the idea of a perfectly happy world and I have to say the idea of living forever in a world where everyone is obedient doesn't really tempt me even if it was possible!

  • Alpaca


    Welcome to the board. Thanks for taking such a wholehearted interest in protecting your friend from going down a very destructive road.

    Before I comment on the illogical reasoning of the Dubs, the great boasting sessions probably refers to District Conventions (annual) and International Conventions (every once in awhile, not regularly scheduled). I was a Dub for many years and that seems to be the context in which the other posters use the term.

    In any event, you've hit the nail on the head by asking if the Dubs think this stuff through. And, clearly the answer is, "NO!"

    It is such a bizarre set of beliefs that denies the reality of the geologic record and the length of time that life has been on the earth. According to the Dubs, each of the creative days in Genesis is 7, 000 years long, and since God didn't start creating life until the 3rd creative day, that means that all life on earth is only 28,000 years old. If you want to read a fascinating and thorough dissection of the Dubs' beliefs about science and evolution, there is a link on Freeminds to Alan Fuerbach's (sp?) commentary.

    As far as I am concerned evolution and the history of life on earth is the bottom tier card in the Dubs' house of cards of doctrines and beliefs. It is fairly incontrovertilble that evolution delivered us to this point in time. The Dubs belief in special human creation, the fall from perfection into sin, the need for a savior/messiah to redeem humans, the belief that the earth will be restored to its original perfect state, and that humans will live forever...simply collapses under the scrutiny of critical analysis.

    In spite of the occasional intelligent person who gets sucked into the Borg, it is no accident that the Dubs prey on those who are less educated, poor, living in despair, or in some other way beaten down by the world. The message is naturally appealing to those who need to latch onto some way out of their dissatisfying lives.

    There is a lot more I could say, but it sounds like you are digging up plenty on your own. No doubt other posters will have their own take on things to share with you.



  • SirNose586

    Well, you've well discovered that the tract-cover paradise is nothing more than hogwash. They want to see things magically restored to new, and live carefree lives playing with animals.

    It's a refreshing prospect after working at unfulfilling jobs all their lives, and knocking on peoples' doors when you could be out enjoying life.

  • R.Crusoe

    Basically, anyone who seriously accepts the belief that a new Earth will be a reality does what most humans did through the ages - make up a list of possibilities, add them to any they think make sense from past writings, and tell others they think this is how it's going to be till others fully accept that this will happen!

  • jwfacts

    It goes to show the power of the concept of God. By conditioning the brain with 2 concepts - Do not question God and With God All Things Are Possible - a person can believe anything.

    The Paradise requires God rewriting the laws of the universe, refuel the sun, etc etc, but With God All Things Are Possible.

  • Eyes Open
    Eyes Open

    Hi there, and well done for helping your friend before it is too late!

    I was a believing JW until a little over a year ago, and the short version of my previous thoughts on the topic are as follows:

    As Jehovah and Jesus designed and made everything, they would know how to modfiy everything as required, or to bring back everything to perfection. Even if humans were still to have sex drive after the earth had been filled, Jehovah could remove the procreative functionality of love-making. Or maybe we could even be given another planet to inhabit.

    The new system was actually a very vague concept, and Witnesses have their own thoughts on how it might be. Some think technology will be used; others don't. It was generally agreed that everyone would be growing their own food and building their own houses, so technology could be used to a more limited/"healthy" degree than this wicked old system.

    Nowhere does it say that animals would live forever, so that wasn't generally believed as far as I know. The thought that predators would cease being predators was quite a mental leap for me (could Satan have twisted creation to be violent?), but...

    ...if someone needs/wants to believe something, logic does not necessarily need to get in the way.

  • greendawn

    Biblically there is no such destiny as eternal life on paradise earth and all the faithful are heaven bound destined to acquire a far more powerful spiritual body as opposed to the fragile and weak human material body.

    The JWs in a crude doctrinal error or intentional deception created the myth of paradise earth. Perhaps the glorified humans will be able to switch at will between spiritual and physical bodies but no one will be locked for ever in a physical body as the heretical JWs preach.

    "All things whether heavenly or earthly belong to you"

  • WTWizard

    First, as long as you are curious about the witless religion, I advise you to continue reading (and posting) on this forum. That way, you will not be tempted to go into a Kingdumb Hell to find out (and get suckered into the cancer--before the Internet, many people were brought into the cancer because they had a question and that was the only way they could get any answer.

    As for the science, the Watchtower Society is keeping its members in a Dark Ages. None of its science adds up. It is all mysticism. There is no way a lion is going to change its whole structure magically to eat straw, and if all the animals ate straw, there would be a shortage of straw and a longage of rabbits and mice.

    Even living forever is a fallacy, if in context with the Watchtower Society. It is possible, but only through the miracle of technology. In order for anyone to live forever, the FDA and the drug companies are going to have to stop playing their "We're working on it" games and start finding true breakthroughs. We are nearly there in knowing why we grow old; now we need to strike any laws that enable a few greedy companies to take the cures away from all men. This is not going to happen through the Watchtower window washers and toilet scrubbers.

    Watchtower science is so blatantly mystic that I don't recommend reading it except for entertainment purposes. That is, unless you have a solid background in science and are able to pick out the fallacies and write another article to throw it back in their faces. And, when you find something that blatantly contradicts something else, that might make a good laugh (plus posting it on this forum could help embarrass the Watchtower Society).

  • BluesBrother

    Logic and science have little place in the J W world. - I wish that I had had your perception, as a young man. My only excuse for swallowing it is that I learned it as a child and what you learn then stays with you. BTW You would be surprised at how convincing a competent Witness can be. They can make it sound so realistic!

    To answer some points briefly - Population ? God is to control human numbers. When the Earth is full of people God will stop any more child birth . I have never seen a comment as to whether this stops sexual activity as well?

    Human accidents? They are less likely for perfect people, but a perfect body will heal itself instantly. NB "No more hurt" does not mean that our nervous system would not react to pain. It is metaphorical of deep pain and sorrow.

    Animal numbers will be controlled by God .

    The Witness way of thinking is typified by this Awake quotation, talking about energy needs

    g80 2/22 14-15

    Jehovah invented the nuclear process that gives the sun its power. He understands and controls it perfectly. He has fueled it for billions of years ahead. Before the fuel burns out, he can replace it just as easily as we take off an old garment and put on a new one. (Ps. 102:25, 26) There would be no crisis in solar energy. Because Jehovah is eternal, his promise of eternal life to his obedient subjects is not an empty one. He can sustain his creation to time indefinite, even forever. (Ps. 104:5) Under his beneficent rule, we will never have to worry about where we will find energy for the future.

    Just keep the faith, and it will all be yours

  • HB

    I have been trying to post a reply to this page for 3 days now but every time I get an error messagbe which says the administator is aware. I can't find a "contact us" option to enquire what the problem is.

    I am just writing this to see if it will get through so I know if it's my specific email that is getting rejected or just any email that causes the problem.

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