Had a visit last Saturday from an elder....

by gymbob 11 Replies latest jw friends

  • gymbob

    He said he was just checking addresses because my house was on the "Do not call" list, and he was checking to see if the same people lived here or had moved away. So I told him that nobody that lives in this house has asked JW's not to call, and that it was probably at the request of my ex-wife who knows I don't attend anymore.

    So he gives me that ookaaayy look..... I'm out working in the yard and so we sit down in the garage to have a chat....

    He doesn't know me, but I remember him from a different cong., and he doesn't know I DA'd myself over 5 years ago. He also doesn't know how much I've learned and how long I've been waiting for this day!

    We actually had a great conversation, I remained very calm and cool, and I'm sure he expected me to be different, and i'm sure he felt like a guy who brought a knife to a gunfight. We spoke about the society's involvement in the U.N., child ped. cases settled out of court, the WTB&TS never getting one thing right in over 100 years, etc. He tried to make me look like I didn't know about the organization, so I told him that I remember when the bible and the songbooks were green, and of the many years I served as a BETHELITE, or VACATION, TEMPORARY, AUG., REGULAR and SPECIAL PIONEER.

    He never had one answer. This guy has been a elder for 20+ years......amazing these people just don't get it. A few times in our little chat I could actually see his eyes just glaze over, like he's not heard a thing I've said.

    In the end, he said he would keep my address on the "do not call" list, but I told him he didn't need to do that..... I don't mind talking to witnesses at all!

  • *Incubus

    thats awesome!Now hes just protecting his flock from YOU!lol

  • reficul

    You should of told him you had more questions and invited him to come back. It's going to be a long while before they come back and when and if he does he will bring and even wiser elder.

  • OnTheWayOut

    Awesome, Gymbob!


  • searchingforfriends

    LOL, Good Job! I moved and didn't tell anyone in the cong so they can't "pop" by. but I do still get a voice message every 4 months or so.

  • potleg

    Nice one,

    You do realize that they want you on the "do not call" list so that other feeble minded JW's won't speak to you and actually wake up from their stupor and start to think for themselves.

  • triplestrength

    Brilliant! I've often been in the situation where out of misplaced respect I've not said what I wanted to or got tounge tied but it sounds like you had your say.

    could you offer him a study in the TRUTH i.e. the reality of the world we live in etc?

    I can relate to the glazed eyes bit my sister who's still in does that.

    Thanks for the experience I live in a do not call house the previous owners set it up and I've never changed it. After all I don't want everyone coming round on a rainy day for Coffee...

  • freydi

    Does the fanatacism of hard-core jw's that began with rutherford, and the Orwellian behavior, along with the literally millions of ruined and disrupted lives left in their wake, remind anybody of nazis without guns? Or the kkk?

  • garybuss

    You wrote: " . . . remind anybody of nazis without guns?"

    Yes, for good reason. The structure of the Witness group is Fascist in design, structure, and operation.

    Commentary by Gary Busselman

    THEOCRACY: God Rule
    (Paradise Restored To Mankind By Theocracy, Watch Tower Bible And Tract Society of New York, Inc., 1972, p.13)

    Fascism, philosophy of government that glorifies the nation-state at the expense of the individual. Major concepts of fascism include opposition to democratic and socialist movements; racist ideologies, such as ANTI-SEMITISM; aggressive military policy; and belief in an authoritarian leader who embodies the ideals of the nation.
    (The Concise Columbia Encyclopedia, 1995)

    FASCISM, is a form of government headed, in most cases, by a dictator. It involves total government control of political, economic, cultural, religious, and social activities. (The World Book Encyclopedia, Vol. 7, 1979,p.52-54)

    The Watch Tower Society claims it is a Theocracy form of government. Ruled from the top [God] down by [using] a dictatorial committee [Governing Body]. It involves total control of: political activity of members by prohibiting membership in [other] political parties and voting in general elections; cultural intercourse by discouraging artists, musicians, and athletics; religious freedom by ostracism of members who seek outside religious association; and social activities by strongly discouraging members from associating with anyone not approved by the group leaders.

    Fascism resembles Communism. But unlike Communism, which calls for the government to own all industry, fascism allows industry to remain in private ownership, though under government control. Other important features of fascism include extreme patriotism, warlike policies, and persecution of minorities. (ibid.)

    The Watch Tower Society [The Theocracy] resembles Communism. But unlike Communism, The Theocracy allows members to own private business, though under Theocracy "suggestions and guidelines" plus all group member workers must follow "Society directives" (Pay Attention To Yourselves And To All The Flock, p.138). Other important features of The Theocracy include extreme loyalty to the Dictatorial Committee [Governing Body], warlike policies, e.g. Theocratic War Strategy, and hatred of perceived enemies [often dissenting former group members].

    Political Life.
    In most cases, fascists have come to power after a nation has suffered an economic collapse, a military defeat, or some other disaster. The fascist party wins mass support by promising to revive the economy and to restore national pride. The fascists may also appeal to a fear of Communism or a hatred of Jews and other minorities. Eventually, the fascists may gain control of the government?through peaceful elections or by force. (ibid.)

    The Theocracy came to power after World War I and after the death of it's charismatic leader and founder, Charles Taze Russell. The Theocracy won support by: identifying a perceived enemy, including all [other] governments, all [other] big business, and all [other] religion, especially the Catholic religion; providing a clear definition of "the problem" and offering an absolute solution; and by claiming an exclusive way to the ideal condition, e.g. heaven, new world, perfect body, etc. The Theocracy appealed to those with a fear of communism and a hatred for the Catholics and other religions.

    After the fascist party takes power, its members replace the men and women in the executive, judicial, and legislative branches of the government. In most cases, one individual?usually a dictator with great popular appeal?becomes the leader of the government. Sometimes, a committee of party members holds the government leadership. Fascists permit no other political party and no opposition to their policies. (ibid)

    After The Theocracy [Joseph Rutherford] took power, it's members took the Watch Tower Society's leadership positions as executive, judicial, and legislative branches of the organization. After a brief intra-Society power struggle, Joseph Franklin Rutherford emerged as the clear leader. Today the leadership is a dictatorial committee called, "The Governing Body" made up of members who have proven their loyalty to the system installed largely by Rutherford. The Theocracy permits no other political party and no opposition to their policies.

    The fascist desire for national glory leads to an increase in military spirit and a build-up of the armed forces. After the military forces become strong enough, they may invade and occupy other countries. (ibid)

    The Theocracy considers itself to be in "Theocratic Warfare" and "publishers" are seen as theocratic soldiers fighting a "spiritual battle". Congregations, in recent history, were known as "companies". Members are referred to as the "rank and file". Numbers of spiritual soldiers [publishers] are seen as proof of divine direction and the armies have advanced upon every country in the world.

    Economic Life. A fascist government permits and even encourages private enterprise?as long as such activity serves the government's goals. However, the government maintains strict control of industry to make sure it produces what the nation needs. The government discourages imports by putting high tariffs on certain essential products or by banning imports of those products. It does not want to depend on other countries for such vital products as oil and steel. (ibid)

    The Theocracy form of government of The Watch Tower Society permits and even encourages private enterprise to a degree?as long as such activity serves the government's goals. However, The Theocracy maintains strict control of member owned industry to make sure it produces what the Society needs. The Society discourages member's buying and reading independent Bible commentaries and other products not produced by the Theocracy's factories. It does not want to depend on [other] business to produce reading and research material for the "rank and file".

    The government also forbids strikes so that production will not be interrupted. Fascism outlaws labor unions and replaces them with a network of organizations in the major industries. These organizations, which consist of both workers and employers, are called corporations, but they differ from those in other countries. Fascist corporations supposedly represent both labor and management but actually are controlled by the government. Through the corporations, the government determines wages, hours, and production goals. As a result, a fascist country is sometimes called a corporative state. (ibid)

    The Theocracy uses guilt and fear to keep members from taking vacations [silent strikes] from "service" [fundraising and recruiting]. The Society has installed it's own network of organization guidelines and directives as well as the necessary enforcement representatives in the member's lives. Individual congregations, as well as every facet of the group member's life, are controlled by the Theocratic government and it's official representatives. Through the individual congregations, the Theocracy government determines member's privileges, schedules their required activities, and reinforces their Theocratic goals.

    Personal Liberty is severely limited under a fascist government. For example, the government limits travel to other countries and restricts any contact with their people. The government also controls the newspapers, radio, and other means of communication in its country. It issues propaganda to promote its policies, and it practices strict censorship to silence opposing views. All children are required to join youth organizations, where they exercise, march, and learn fascist beliefs. A secret police force crushes any resistance. Opposition may lead to imprisonment, torture, and death. (ibid)

    Personal liberty is severely limited under The Watch Tower Society's Theocratic government. For example, the government limits association with [other] churches and discourages any personal contact with their people. The Theocratic government also controls the information it's members have access to. It issues it's own propaganda to promote it's policies, and it practices strict censorship to silence opposing views, ostracizing members who admit to reading information critical of the Society. All children are intimidated to begin service and silent meeting attendance at an early age by parents who will not be eligible for privileges [unpaid group jobs] unless children comply. Children of privileged adults are required to learn Theocratic beliefs and to behave as though they accept these as fact, sometimes as a condition for them to remain a resident of the family home. A structured enforcement system exists to guarantee enforced compliance with the dictatorial committee's directives, including convention "attendants" [private police], organizationally directed as well as freelance surveillance of group members, and the powerful "elder arrangement", which judges members compliance to the "directives" in secret trials called "judicial committee meetings", where the leadership selected, all male panel issues summonses, hears witness testimony, reads charges, determines innocence or guilt, and passes sentence on the accused. Often the sentence is a "disfellowshiping order", under which members in good standing are required to snub and shun errant members even if they are relatives.

    Fascists consider all other peoples inferior to those of their own nationality group. As a result, a fascist government may persecute or even kill Gypsies, Jews, or members of other minority groups. (ibid)

    The Theocracy considers all [other] business, government, and religion inferior to their own and operated for the benefit of the power of evil. As a result the Theocratic government of the Watch Tower Society may persecute by ostracism members and leaders of opposing [all] business, political, governmental, and religious institutions [organizations], including shunning, snubbing, and verbal as well as printed attacks and public name calling. (Chaplinsky V. New Hampshire, 315 U.S. 58)

  • WTWizard

    I hope they end up with one less hounder in about 6 months.

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