How to get a friend out of "the truth"

by St-Jacques 13 Replies latest jw friends

  • St-Jacques
    St-Jacques

    I'm sure threads along these lines have come up dozens of times in the past, but I'm not exactly sure how one would go about searching for this topic.

    I was approached about a week ago by a girl named Eve, with whom I share a mutual friend. Our friend is someone I knew when I was a Witness, and is one of Eve's close friends at school. Now, over the course of high school, Eve has been trying to get her friend to realize the truth about the sham that the Watchtower calls a religion. This has been to no avail. Eventually, she came into contact with me. Now, I'm by no means an expert on the situation, but I'm the closest thing our hick town has to one. Now, we have this herculean task before us: de-convert a Jehovah's Witness before the end of June, at which time our Witness friend will graduate, forget about her worldly friends and go on to become another unthinking drone in the Jehovah corps.

    So I'm going to need a bit of help. Suggestions would be great. I'll take any sort of help. Anything that you know of that has worked in the past and could work now.

    Saint J

  • Hope4Others
    Hope4Others

    Welcome to the board. You are asking for a huge task here before June. Usually its best to tell a little info at a time most people can not handle a bombardment of tearing their faith down. Have you been out long yourself? Have you read any of the publications by Ray Franz? There are numerous sites to read but if you stick around here you will learn a lot and just ask questions. You will no doubt receive a lot of good information. Go to the best of section here on the forum and you will find a wealth of info. Also go to freeminds.org and there are also lots of links from there. Good luck and have fun!

  • St-Jacques
    St-Jacques

    I've been out for about a year and a half. I spend quite a bit of time on the internet, but I've never really posted on forums (besides the facebook group boards) much before. I came here because I was hoping, if anyone could give me some pointers, it'd be you guys.

  • Hope4Others
    Hope4Others

    Well stick around I'm sure there will be lots of others around sooner or later to help.

    hope4others

  • Honesty
    Honesty

    If Jesus was resurrected as an invisible spirit, like the Watchtower teaches, why did Jesus say he was going to raise his physical body from the dead (John 2:19-22)?

    If Jesus, the man, ceased to exist at his death and was raised from the dead as Michael the Archangel, why did Michael deceive the apostles into believing that they were witnessing Jesus in a resurrected physical body (Luke 24:39)?

    If Jesus is now living in heaven as an invisible spirit creature, like the Watchtower teaches, why did Paul write many years after the ascension of Christ that he is dwelling in heaven in a physical body (Colossians 2:9)? Note: The Greek word, somatikos, means physical, tangible body.

    If Jesus is now Michael the Archangel, why does 1 Timothy 2:5 say that the mediator between God and men is the man, Christ Jesus, and not the spirit, Michael the Archangel?

    Can you show me a verse in the bible that clearly says Jesus is the Archangel Michael? How can Jesus be Michael since Hebrews chapter 1 stresses the superiority of Jesus over the angels and that all the angels worship him? Why would Jehovah command that the entire angelic realm worship another angel? Note: The Watchtower bible changes the word worship, in Hebrews 1:6, to "do obeisance to". However, see section below on the New World Translation.

    Since the Watchtower was wrong in the past about many of its teachings and the light continues to get brighter (Proverbs 4:18), how do you know that the current teachings are correct and won’t change?

    Why did the Watchtower magazine (Nov 15, 1981, p. 21) say to "come to Jehovah’s organization for salvation" when Jesus never directed us to an organization for salvation but to him?

    When you joined the Jehovah’s Witnesses, did you read information for and against the Watchtower so you could make an educated and well rounded decision based on both points of view?

    Has anyone become a Jehovah’s Witness after reading the bible alone without the aid of Watchtower material?

    If I were to join the Jehovah’s Witnesses, would it be okay for me to do research into the Watchtower’s past by reading non-Watchtower material?

    Since the Watchtower was in error many times in the past, are you obligated to believe that all the current teachings are God’s truth?

    If Jesus’ invisible presence began in 1914, like the Watchtower teaches, why was the Watchtower teaching in 1929 that Jesus’ invisible presence began in 1874? How did they finally figure out that that teaching was false? Reference: Prophecy, 1929, p. 65.

    Since the Watchtower claims to be God’s prophet (The Watchtower, April 1, 1972, p. 197) and have falsely predicted Armageddon to occur in 1914, 1918, 1925 and 1975, do you think they meet the criteria of Deuteronomy 18:20-22?

    Can you show me in the bible where it says to give false prophets a second or third chance to get it right?

    If the Watchtower really is Jehovah’s prophet, like they claim, can you show me anything they predicted that came to pass?

    Why did Hebrews 1:6 in the 1970 version of the New World Translation say, "Let all God’s angels worship him" and not "do obeisance to him" like the new versions say?

    Why does the New World Translation insert the word "other" four times into Colossians chapter 1 when it isn’t in the Greek manuscripts at all? Doesn’t this change the meaning of the text?

    Why does the New World Translation place the comma in Luke 23:43 in a different location than it does every other time when Jesus says, "Truly I tell you"?

    Can you show me a list of Greek scholars who approve of the New World Translation’s New Testament translation?

    Can you show me a list of the people who were on the New World Translation Committee along with their credentials in the ancient Biblical languages?

    If the Watchtower’s teaching that the 144,000 were filled in 1935 is correct, can you explain how Jesus, his apostles and their immediate followers couldn’t get 144,000 converts in 1800 years, but the Watchtower got 6 million converts in 125 years?

    Why does the Watchtower teach that only 144,000 people are born-again when 1 John 5:1 says that everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God?

    Why is there only one judgment period from God to test the endurance and worthiness of the 144,000 before they are guaranteed of eternal life, but the other sheep have to endure through this life, the 1000 year millennium plus pass an unknown final test before they are counted worthy of eternal life? Why is salvation so much easier for the 144,000?

    If Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are not part of the 144,000 with a heavenly hope, why does Jesus say in Matthew 8:11 that they will be in the kingdom of heaven?

    According to Jesus in John 17:3, how many true Gods are there? Would you say that whatever is not true is false? Doesn’t the New World Translation call Jesus "a god" in John 1:1? Since there is only one true God and all others must be false, is Jesus a true God or a false god?

    If Jesus was God’s Master Worker in creation, why does Jehovah say, in Isaiah 44:24, that He created all things by Himself?

    If Jesus is a created being, why does he get twice as much worship, in Revelation 5:12, as Jehovah gets in Revelation 4:11?

    If Jehovah created Jesus, why does John 1:3 say that all things came into existence through Jesus and apart from him not even one thing was made? Doesn’t this place Jesus outside the realm of created things?

    If everlasting life comes by taking in knowledge (John 17:3), how long do I have to study with the Jehovah’s Witnesses to be assured that I have enough knowledge to live forever? 1 year? 5 years?

    If we pay for our personal sins when we die, like the Watchtower teaches, how will the great crowd who survive Armageddon pay for their sins since they will never die but go right on living into the millennium?

    Does one have to accept the explantion of scripture as presented by the Watchtower Society's Editorial staff in their publications in order to have an approved relationship with God?

  • kerj2leev
    kerj2leev

    You can't do it, it's something that they must realize on their own. Kinda like drug addicts, you can't make them stop, they have to make that decision on their own.

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    My daughter, in High School, did the very thing you ask. And this was BEFORE I learned as much as I do know about the Witnesses. My daughter started out by researching and then presenting all of the classic arguments about the trinity, and how to refute the Witness arguments about Christ. I don't recommend this. Watching the two girls, I suggested that she "Just love her. Be a real friend, be there for her." This my daughter did. It worked. It worked better than my daughter could have anticipated.

    It came the day the girl decided to check out the Christian youth group my daughter went to. You can imagine what a big step this was. She had sworn she would not associate with such a group for months. Anyways, it only took one visit and this girl was collecting phone numbers and making friends.

    My teenage daughter was so ticked. Her new friend was horning in on all her old relationships.

    Anyways, In a few short months this young girl stopped studying with the Witnesses. My daughter is 28 now, and still keeps in touch with the young lady. They are both lovely women and great parents.

  • DevonMcBride
    DevonMcBride

    I was in a similar position. Never been a witness but tried to get a friend out.

    The book Releasing The Bonds by Steven Hassan was a huge help and a good start.

  • OnTheWayOut
    OnTheWayOut

    Since you are in a hurry to do this, the only quick ways involve wetting the appetite for
    the potential de-converted to desire more information. You can't just have an intervention
    and free their mind. (Well, maybe that can be done, but you aren't the expert to do that.)

    One way is to say, "Look, I read this book by Ray Franz. He used to be on the Governing
    Body. He reveals exactly how Watchtower organization works, and how it misleads people.
    Here is the book."

    Offer no more- you might scare him from reading it.

  • St-Jacques
    St-Jacques

    Thank you all for your advice. Unfortunately, I believe that I failed to mention that she won't talk to me as I'm a former Witness myself. I'm deemed "bad association" and don't really have the ability to talk to her. So somehow I need to find an alternative method.....

    SJ

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