I understand your pov Caedes that there is no divine plan and that things just happen, that the universe is oblivious to its effects. But disagree that things just happen when this is applied to suffering as I feel that suffering is always made and that unless we can appreciate how it is made we won't be able to address it, to lessen it, to understand how power is being used to keep people suffering.
How is a tsunami made? What power causes tsunamis? What about floods or ebola or earthquakes or cyclones? Those are not man made, nobody caused them. When the asteroid wiped out the dinosaurs that was before humans even existed. There are a whole range of things that happen that humans have no power over whatsoever. We do not control these things, the only thing we can do is mitigate against their effects.
And this, little_socrates, imo, is the value of owning and naming suffering and tracing its history and in doing so make it sublime if not beautiful - sublime as horror that needs to be witnessed to be overcome. (my emphasis)
Revelling in misery and suffering is not sublime or beautiful. It is both grotesque and absurd and showing a lack of empathy. But at least some respect is due for being willing to voice and back the awful and terrible beliefs that can be at the core of a faith in a creator god.
So I am disagreeing with you caedes on a very fundamental level in order to to show that there is the possiblity of dismissing suffering and by doing that allowing power that is very exploitive to go unchecked.
Good I am glad you disagree with me, I would hate to have something in common with someone who thinks that suffering is sublime or beautiful.
I think it is worth taking a moment to think through what your view would logically mean; after all if god is making people suffer it is for a good reason and who are you to interfere? Given that you believe that suffering is all part of god's plan then there isn't anything you can do to mitigate against that suffering is there? This kind of thinking is exactly what caused mother Teresa to have a charity with huge donations but not do anything with that money to help the people in her 'care'.
The famous quote from Stevn Weinberg seems very apt here "Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion."
I note your points that follow and agree but still feel that I need to make the point above because I object strongly for the above reason and for the reason that you are putting God in the picture alongside engineering feats as God is often the vicitms of made (whether natural or man made) sufferings' only hope for change.
My point is that humanity does try to alleviate suffering, your god does nothing so I wouldn't put your god alongside the smallest of human achievements in this area.
edit: I think all our political leaders are aware of this so I won't say only Ed Milliband is although I'd like to - at the moment anyway
I'm unclear what Ed Milliband has to do with the topic, but at least he wants to try and do something to help his fellows, I would say the same about most UK political leaders apart from Farage of course (he would sell his granny if it helped him up the slippery pole).
Cantleave that pic has an interesting history that imo illustrates the point I am trying to make.
I think we all know how seriously to take your opinion now. The opinion you are sharing is sickening, despicable, lacking in empathy and is utterly beneath contempt.
