Question: When did satan become ruler of the world according to JW?

by Pickled 14 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • sacolton

    Wait a minute ... if Satan became "Ruler of the World" after Adam and Eve sinned and then casted from Heaven after the Great War ... how is it that Satan is invited back to Heaven to gamble on Job?

  • Pickled

    Thank you Leolaia, looking that up now.

    Sacolton, I think the JW believe that Michael fought with satan in 1914 and cast him out of heaven at that point. It was then that satan focused his anger over that excommunication onto the earth, and that is why WWI started in 1914. In addition, immediately after satan's expulsion Michael was seated on the throne as king of the kingdom. The book of Job is one of the oldest books in the Bible, and satan's challenge would have occurred, according to the JW, centuries before 1914.

    My question would be Sacolton,...if Michael is the one who fought with satan and cast him out so that he could be enthroned as king, then why is it if Jesus and Michael are one and the same, do the JW still pray in the name of Jesus when petitioning the father? JW believe that Jesus went back to being the Archangel Michael when he ascended back to the Father. However, it is Jesus who was seated on the throne, as Jesus, and not one who is referred to as Michael. In addition, the book of revelation indicates that it is the voice of an archangel that announces the second coming, along with the voice of a trumpet. Did Jesus remain merely an Archangel even after Jehovah declared "today you are my son"? This is the order of events according to the JW...

    1. satan an archangel (satan is not a proper name, the words satan and devil means tempter and opposer. The name Lucifer is not a proper name and is an error. The name Lucifer originated in changes made to the translation of the Bible from Latin to early English by Catholic translators. The words "Lucem Ferre" in Latin is "Day Star", "Morning Star", or "Bearer of Light." The words "Morning Star" are used in the Old and New Testaments. I believe one refers to the devil as the morning star, and one is in the book of Revelation in reference to Jesus as the "morning star." Since Jesus and the devil are not one and the same in the Bible, satan's name cannot be Lucifer.)

    2. satan rebelled and was no longer an archangel.

    3. Michael an archangel (The reason why I am using "an" archangel and not "the" archangel is because the scriptures indicate that Jesus' second coming is announced withe the voice of "an" archangel and not "the" archangel. However, even though the Bible does not indicate that there is only one single archangel, it also does not mention any of the others by name. had the names of the other archangels been mentioned it would have made it even more difficult to prove that Jesus and Michael are the same creature.)

    4. Michael becomes Jesus on earth.

    5. Jesus returns to heaven and becomes Michael again when he gets there.

    6. Scriptures indicate that all are to pray in the name of the Father, and in the same of the Son, and in the name of the Holy Spirit.

    7. JW and all others decide that the name they will utter when praying to the Father will be Jesus and not Michael.

    8. Jesus begins to have a presence on the earth again but in an invisible way in 1914. No one knows this, not even in 1914, until years later. So it was not only invisible, but undetectable for many years as well. It was invisible, silent, and basically without much of a stir at all. If the argument is made that it must have caused a stir because that is when 1914 began, that is an error in thinking if you happen to also believe that it was satan who was angry about being expelled that caused the stirring up in the form of WWI. Unless you also believe that Jesus was the one who started WWI instead of telling his followers he was present enough to start a war involving several continents.

    9. Jesus is still back to Michael as evidenced in the archangel shouting, according to the JW, even though the Father indicates that he was given a different role altogether, that of Son and no longer simply an angel. So the archangel became King of the Kingdom but his name stayed the same, Michael. Even though God frequently changed people's names in the Bible, like Abram to Abraham, Sarai to Sarah, Jacob to Israel, Saul to Paul, and several others were named directly by an angel of God, including Jesus, indicating that the name of someone is extremely important because it denotes purpose or a change in the purpose or role of that person. The JW decided that even though messenger angels told Mary that his name is Jesus and that name must have been what God wanted it to be, and was important enough to send a messenger angel to convey that, it just reverted back to the name Michael that he had before his role changed, and before God changed his name too.

    10. JW believe the name Jesus or Michael really isn't that important anyway because Jesus/Michael returns the Kingdom back to his Father in the end anyway. Basically, this Jesus/Michael person is a temp so call him what you want.

  • Pickled

    Leolaia, I am still reading and trying to figure out exactly when satan was made ruler of the earth. As I was reading I noticed that it is indicated that sometime around 1914 and 1918, all of Christendom became slated for destruction and stripped of their relationship they had with Jehovah. It seems the more I read the more questions I have.

    Forget the part about the JW themselves not knowing in either 1914, 1918, or 1919 that Jesus was doing all of this...what about the judgment placed on "Christendom"? Is Rutherford really saying that millions and millions of people were slated for destruction because of what they believed AT THAT TIME when they ALSO had no idea that anything at all was happening during those years? Is this logic incorrect?....

    1. C. T. Russell believed Christ returned in 1874.

    2. C. T. Russell believed that he was the ONLY anointed person on earth. He was the "faithful and discrete slave" all by himself.

    3. All of the JW agreed with him and their literature from that time reflects that agreement.

    4. They were wrong and their literature admits this in several places including in the Proclaimer's book.

    5. Even though they were teaching 48 different teachings that were wrong at the time and have backtracked....what they have NOT backtracked is the part where that is STILL the right time that "Christendom" or wrong thinking Christians on the earth received their appointment to be executed?

    Why did Christians receive a death sentence during the same time that the WTBTS was appointed the "faithful and discrete slave" for dispensing the wrong teachings?

    If those wrong teachings were retracted by the JW, then why wasn't "Christendom" given a break as well?

  • Pickled

    Leolaia, here is what I am looking at...

    Vindication, Vol. 1, 1931
    Page 282
    Prior to his rebellion Lucifer was a servant of Jehovah,
    clothed with power and authority to inflict the
    death penalty for the violation of God’s law. (Ezek.
    28 : 14 ; Heb. 2 : 14) When Jehovah withdrew his favor
    from Israel and determined upon its destruction, that
    nation passed under the control of Satan by sufferance,
    and Satan, by the sufferance of Jehovah, became
    the god of the entire world. Nebuchadnezzar, being
    the visible head of the universal world power, there

    Ezek 21 RULERS 283
    sat in the position similar to that occupied by Lucifer
    prior to his rebellion. God used Nebuchadnezzar,
    the king of Babylon, to punish Israel; and for that
    purpose Nebuchadnezzar was the servant of Jehovah,
    and Jehovah spoke of Nebuchadnezzar as his servant.
    (Jer. 25: 9; 27: 6; Ezek. 29: 19,20) Nebuchadnezzar
    was not a type of Jesus Christ merely because God
    used him for his purpose to foreshadow the destruction
    of Christendom. As long as Israel was a covenant
    people of God, Nebuchadnezzar could not be the universal
    ruler of the world; and when God cast Israel
    off, Nebuchadnezzar, being the representative of Satan
    on earth, became the universal ruler of the world
    by reason of what God did to the Israelites; and
    hence it is properly said that Jehovah gave Nebuchadnezzar
    the kingdom, that is to say, he suffered him
    to take it. Daniel, addressing Nebuchadnezzar, said:
    “Thou . . . art a king of kings, for the God of heaven
    hath given thee [the] kingdom.” (Dan. 2 : 37)
    That does not mean that God had made Nebuchadnezzar
    his representative in the earth ; but by reason
    of what God did to Israel he made Nebuchadnezzar
    king of the Israelites.
    There is no reason to believe that Nebuchadnezzar
    knew he was serving God’s purposes ; but that did not
    preclude him from being so used. Any creature whom
    the Lord uses in his service, even if that creature be
    an ass, is his servant. (Num. 22: 28-30) God could
    have caused even the very stones to do his service and
    therefore to be his servant. (Luke 19 : 10) Nebuchadnezzar
    the king of Babylon stood, as it were, at the
    forks of the road, considering whether he should take
    the road that led him to Ammon, and smite first the

    Ammonites, or should take the other road and smite
    first Judah and Jerusalem. God intervened and so
    controlled the affairs of Nebuchadnezzar that Nebuchadnezzar
    chose to go to Jerusalem and did go and
    smite it first. In thus controlling the action of Nebuchadnezzar
    Jehovah said to Ezekiel : “Choose thou a
    place . . . at the head of the way to the city [Jeru-
    salem]. ” “And a hand engrave thou, at the head of
    the way to the city engrave it.” (Roth.) (21: 19)
    Just as though one would place a signboard with an
    index finger there at the fork of the road, the finger
    pointing a certain way, in like manner the Lord directed
    that Nebuchadnezzar go to Jerusalem. Jerusalem
    was more reprehensible before God, and he directed
    the assault with the sword to be made there
    Then the prophecy discloses a picture of Nebuchadnezzar
    appealing to an unseen power, which meant,
    of course, to the Devil and his angels, “For the king
    of Babylon stood at the parting of the way, at the
    head of the two ways [at the fork of the road] to use
    divination [to appeal to his deity, Satan] : he made
    his arrows bright, he consulted with images [teraphim,
    or idols], he looked in the liver. ” As Nebuchadnezzar
    stood there facing the south, “at his right
    hand was the divination for Jerusalem.” (21: 22)
    While he consulted his various signs, Jehovah overruled
    the omens or signs so that God’s will would be
    accomplished upon Jerusalem. Without doubt Jehovah
    had his angel on the spot to see that Nebuchadnezzar
    did as he wanted him to do. Jehovah called to
    remembrance the iniquity of Jerusalem, and so

    Ezek 21 RULERS 285
    controlled the affairs of Nebuchadnezzar that the assault
    was made upon it first.-21: 23.
    Even so today: those of the Devil’s organization
    call upon their deity, “the god of this [wicked]
    world,” and consult mediums and idols to know what
    they shall do ; but regardless thereof the will of Jehovah
    shall be done against hypocritical “organized
    Christianity”. It was Jehovah who brought punishment
    upon Jerusalem, and it is Jehovah that will
    bring a like punishment upon Christendom. In both
    instances the instrument used is Jehovah’s servant,
    but it does not at all follow that the first servant was
    a “type” of the last.
    Jerusalem had come to the full in wickedness, and
    God caused Ezekiel to announce his decree against
    her. Likewise, Christendom has come to the full in
    wickedness, and God causes his anointed people, whom
    Ezekiel foreshadowed, to announce his decree against
    her : “Therefore thus saith the Lord God, Because ye
    have made your iniquity to be remembered, in that
    your transgressions are discovered, so that in all your
    doings your sins do appear; because, I say, that ye
    are come to remembrance, ye shall be taken with the
    hand.” (21: 24) Thus Jehovah sets forth that it is
    the measure of sinfulness and wickedness, in proportion
    to light, that brings responsibility and that therefore
    brings down upon the wicked his sword. In this
    verse (24) Jehovah laid the charge against the Jews
    at the beginning of the Gentile times; and with
    stronger reasoning the charge applies to Christendom
    since the close of the Gentile times and before bringing
    upon Christendom the sword at Armageddon.
    Zcdckiah was then the ruler in Jerusalem, and

    Zedekiah foreshadowed the exalted rulers in Christendom.
    To such Jehovah says: “And thou, profane
    wicked prince of Israel, whose day is come, when
    iniquity shall have an end.” (21: 25) This applied,
    of course, to Zedekiah; and its wider application is to
    the exalted ones of Christendom who are lifted up,
    haughty, austere, and who are “profane” [meaning
    “death-deserving” (Leeser) ], lawless ones who assume
    to be worthy to rule in God’s name and who
    hypocritically claim to be God’s representatives on
    the earth. Other renderings of the text are illuminating
    : “Whose day hath come in a time of final iniquity”
    (Roth.) ; “And thou, death-deserving wicked
    one, prince of Israel, whose day is come, at the time
    of the iniquity of the end.” (Leeser) This means that
    the time has come when God will restrain evil, and
    that time is marked by extreme wickedness in Christendom
    ; and now it must come to an end.
    Jehovah then addresses his chief officer, saying:
    “Thus saith the Lord God, Remove the diadem, and
    take off the crown; this shall not be the same ; exalt
    him that is low, and abase him that is high.” (21: 26)
    Christ Jesus is the one who knocks the crowns off the
    heads of the rulers of the world, and who takes away
    all kingdom privileges from the unfaithful, and who
    exalts the obedient ones who are faithful to their
    covenant, This work began with the coming of the
    Lord to his temple for judgment, in 1918. The fall
    of Zedekiah marked the end of the Jewish nation. The
    fall of Christendom will mark the end of hypocritical
    ‘ ‘ organized religion ’ ‘.
    Then with decided emphasis Jehovah announces:
    “I will overturn, overturn, overturn it; and it shall

    EZEK. 21 RULERS 287
    be no more, until he come whose right it is ; and I
    will give it him. ” (21: 27) The it means the crown,
    or authority to rule. The rulers of Christendom assume
    to wear it, the crown, and God will take it away
    completely from Christendom and all other earthly
    rulers. Christ is earth’s rightful King, and God has
    placed him upon his holy hill in Zion. (Ps. 2: 6) The
    kingdom of God is taken from Christendom and given
    to the ‘<nation bringing forth the fruits thereof “, to
    wit, Christ Jesus and his faithful body members, the
    faithful servant of Jehovah. (Matt. 21: 43) “The
    Lord lifteth up the meek ; he casteth the wicked down
    to the ground.“--Ps. 147: 6.
    Other renderings of verse twenty-seven disclose a
    flexibility of phraseology of the text, making it apply
    both in 1914 and at Armageddon. “Also this shall not
    belong (to any one) until he come whose right. it is,
    and I will give it him.” (Leeser) “Even this hath not
    befallen until the coming of One to whom belongeth
    the right, then will I bestow it.” (Roth.) This shows
    that the prophecy applied at 1914, when the Lord
    Jesus was then placed upon the throne, but applies
    more particularly at the coming of the Lord Jesus to
    the battle of Armageddon. Then the crowns of Satan’s
    organization will be thrown down, and the heads
    broken. (Ps. 110: 6) There will then be no rival contender
    for the crown, but it belongs to and will be
    used exclusively by Christ Jesus.
    Now earth’s rightful King has come, and three and
    one-half years after his coming, to wit, in 1918, he
    was presented as King and was rejected by Christendom
    ; and the next great act is the complete overthrow
    and destruction of Christendom. Three times

    the word “overthrown” or “overturn” is used, and
    manifestly for the purpose of emphasis, as the words
    “sword be doubled the third time” are used. Such
    means the certain and complete destruction of Christendom
    that it may rise no more.

  • Pickled

    Ok, I can see that this Vindication book must be "Old Light" as well. "New Light" explains that using the name "Lucifer" as a proper name for the devil is incorrect and that it was those corrupt and wicked Catholics who came up with that name. That name, as I mentioned above, comes from the Latin "Lucem Ferre" or Light Bearer, or Morning Star, and this is indicated also in their "New Light."

    Rutherford uses the name Lucifer as a proper name for the devil. Rutherford was obviously not functioning as a "Lucem Ferre"....or Light Bearer....."Old" or "New".....he was just "Wrong".

    So does that mean I need to look for more recent literature, or "New Light" to answer my question about the divisions of authority between God and satan concerning earthly rule? Or does the average JW exercise independent thinking and sort through "Old Light" and "New Light" in every piece of literature in order to answer their questions? I think I will play it safe and look for literature that instead has more "New Light" than "Old Light" to find my answer. How do I load the 2007 Watchtower Library CD? I think it's the one that has the little girl, the man, and the gold computer that is obviously not hooked up to the internet and is missing a brand logo.

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