How much trouble will I get into if I send this letter?

by inkling 21 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • inkling
    inkling

    Ok, so this is a unsent letter to a quite understanding and slightly
    odd JW friend. We have had conversations in the past about my "doubts"
    and he didn't get at all freaked out.

    He recently invited me to go out in service with him, and what
    started out as a simply declination turned into a rant that I
    am afraid to send.

    Let me know what you think?

    -------

    I have given your invitation to share in the pre-memorial
    service work serious consideration, and although I appreciate
    your sincerity, I am afraid I must decline.

    Even if it is nothing more than handing out an invitation,
    even in that act I am presenting myself as an advocate or
    representative for a particular set of beliefs about life,
    and death, and the meaning of the life and death of Jesus.

    If those are not actually beliefs that I possess, I don't
    see how it is anything but hypocrisy on my part to offer
    them to others.

    In Jesus' words:

    "You must love the Lord your God with all your
    heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind."

    It seems clear that if there is a god, he is the one that
    gave me this mind. He is the one that made the universe the
    way it is, and he is the one that created the basic rules
    that allow the scientific process to work in the first
    place. I cannot imagine a just and loving god who would
    make man with thinking and logic and science and then punish
    them when they pursue the natural ends of such paths.

    Over the past year I finally confronted a whole host of very compelling pieces of evidence that the world view I grew up with simply does not mesh with reality. That door is open, and I would not want it closed even if I had the power to do so.

    I am open to the idea that the Bible is indeed an expression
    of human's trying to describe contact with the divine, and
    for that it may hold great wisdom and power for use today.

    I also see that it expresses a simplistic and heliocentric
    (the universe revolves around humankind) worldview that,
    while understandable at the time, cannot in good intellectual
    conscience be defended today.

    The fossil record shows that for all of time animals have
    killed and eaten each other in a vicious and bloodstained
    circle of life. This simple fact seems completely irreconcilable
    with the current understanding that the Bible says that before
    the fall of Adam and Eve (indeed, before the flood) animals lived
    in peace.

    When the Bible makes it seem like all disease is a product of
    imperfection caused by sin, and then scientists find Dinosaurs
    with brain cancer, there is something wrong with something.

    If I am going to believe in god, I have to accept that for
    some reason, god created cancer.

    When I read that historians have collected unbroken records of
    Egyptian and Chinese cultures all the way back to 3000 B.C.,
    and then the Bible says that those cultures were wiped off
    the face of the earth in 2370 B.C., this is understandably
    disturbing to me.

    When the bible seems to say that every living thing was killed
    by being covered by water miles deep, and then I find out that
    such an disaster would easily kill all plant and fish life
    (life forms Noah did not rescue) as well, That is understandably
    deeply disturbing to me, seeing as:

    There is a LIVING creosote bush "colony" in the Mojave desert
    that is over 11,000 years old.

    There are currently bristle cone pine trees that are over 4000 years
    old and scientists, by comparing these living tree rings with dead
    tree rings and matching overlapping growth patterns were able to
    map out a tree ring sequence going all the way back to 6273 B.C.,
    meaning that there were trees that lived straight on through the
    time allocated to Noah's flood.

    To pretend these facts don't exist or to suggest that these
    scientists have no idea what they are doing seems to be simply
    the arrogance of a person living in denial.

    When I recently talked to [Elder A] and [Elder B] about this they
    said "yeah, but are these things that really matter? Aren't
    the really important things the truth about God and death
    and the future?" Basically, I should just "trust in Jehovah"
    to correct any misunderstandings in due time.

    Well, I respectfully disagree. The time has been long due.
    These scientific findings have been around and confirmed
    for decades. I think the Bible's ability or inability to
    explain the nature of where life came from and how it got
    like it is today is HUGE, and until the writers of the
    Watchtower and related literature turn and face what I see
    as the unavoidable facts of history and science, I cannot
    in good conscience represent such literature by taking it or
    it's name door to door.

    If there is a god, I would think it would respect honesty
    over pious faking.

    When I am honest with myself, I arrive at this simple
    paradox:

    I feel there is a god.
    I think there is not.

    This may very well change at some point, and I am honestly
    open to a higher level of enlightenment, but I cannot
    imagine myself ever again publicly defending a strictly
    literal interpretation of the Bible in such cases as it
    makes claims that overlap with scientifically testable
    jurisdiction.

    I'm sorry of this admission is disturbing, but please
    understand that it was also quite disturbing to admit
    this to myself.

    I value our friendship, but I hope you understand that if
    our friendship has a future, it will have to be one built
    on a common ground deeper and more solid than that of shared
    religious belief.

    [inkling]

  • darth frosty
    darth frosty

    I say mail it(or send it.) You know what the worst that can happen is. But, here is the key. You dont know the good that can come from sending it. The peace of mind you can have by expressing your true thoughts and desires. Letting others know that you will not be shackled by an oppressive cult. Perhaps even your friend coming to his own understanding of the truth about the troof.

    You see the real key is being able to let go of the old inbred fears and embrace life anew.

    Just my .02.

  • BFD
    BFD

    I don't know what you mean by 'trouble' but it is an awful lot to hit him with at once. If you want to have this guy for a friend maybe it would be better to meet him for a drink or something and have this disccusion with him. Really good letter, though.

    BFD

  • moshe
    moshe

    I doubt that it will get him thinking, unless there are doubts already.

  • hillbilly
    hillbilly

    Very eloquent. If you send it all they will read is "apostate". I liked it though.

    Yea...you have some 'splainen to do, Lucy

    ~Hill

  • still_in74
    still_in74

    When I read that historians have collected unbroken records of
    Egyptian and Chinese cultures all the way back to 3000 B.C.,
    and then the Bible says that those cultures were wiped off
    the face of the earth in 2370 B.C., this is understandably
    disturbing to me.

    When the bible seems to say that every living thing was killed
    by being covered by water miles deep, and then I find out that
    such an disaster would easily kill all plant and fish life
    (life forms Noah did not rescue) as well, That is understandably
    deeply disturbing to me, seeing as:

    There is a LIVING creosote bush "colony" in the Mojave desert
    that is over 11,000 years old.

    There are currently bristle cone pine trees that are over 4000 years
    old and scientists, by comparing these living tree rings with dead
    tree rings and matching overlapping growth patterns were able to
    map out a tree ring sequence going all the way back to 6273 B.C.,
    meaning that there were trees that lived straight on through the
    time allocated to Noah's flood.

    how can someone really come up with a tenable argument against these facts?
    Try one at a time here and there, if your really brave, slip one into a WT comment on Sunday. State the fact and then say how mans wisdom is foolishness with god. I think I am going to start doing that!

  • OnTheWayOut
    OnTheWayOut

    If you are desirous of avoiding trouble, this stuff in writing (or typing) from you is too much.
    If you must say these things, do it with your voice and leave no record for him to give to
    someone else.

    The following are enough for a JC to hang you (regardless of what you are actually saying):

    If those are not actually beliefs that I possess, I don't
    see how it is anything but hypocrisy on my part to offer
    them to others.
    ... if there is a god....
    This simple fact seems completely irreconcilable
    with the current understanding that the Bible says that ....

    When the Bible makes it seem like all disease is a product of
    imperfection caused by sin, and then scientists find Dinosaurs
    with brain cancer, there is something wrong with something.

    If I am going to believe in god,....

    I feel there is a god.
    I think there is not.

    You would have to eliminate such bold statements and leave everything at the "doubt" level or else
    don't put it down in writing.

  • inkling
    inkling
    how can someone really come up with a tenable argument against these facts?

    There are attempts. I will try and look some up...

    [inkling]

  • inkling
    inkling

    AIG apolgetic to bristle cone pines and cresote bush: http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v25/i1/patriarch.asp

    Rebuttal to creationist attempts to discredit tree ring matching: http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/dave_matson/young-earth/specific_arguments/tree.html

    [inkling]

  • NewYork44M
    NewYork44M

    The key is that you described this person as a "slightly odd JW friend." My guess is that the letter will go no futher than the friend. Your friend wont be swayed by your arguements, but I doubt you will be turned in.

    The worst that can happen is that you will discovered to be an apostate by JW standards and you will get your freedom from a real estate development cult by being disfellowshipped. But I doubt that will happen.

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