What makes a 'true' christian?

by Caedes 33 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Caedes
    Caedes

    There are some very sensible christians on this board and some that are not so sensible, what I dont understand is why there isn't more protest when the likes of real one and hibiscusfire claim to know what makes a 'real' christian.

    It annoys me and I'm not even a theist, a recent thread on a bible topic had a christian claiming that the bible was worthless unless you believe it to be infallible. Apart from insulting the study of the bible as an important part literary history it also undermines the perfectly valid faith of a majority of christians whose view of the bible isn't so blinkered.

    I suppose it is not much different from people claiming that they know what my morals are because I'm an atheist.

    What does everyone else think of this kind of fundamentalist thinking.

  • JeffT
    JeffT

    I didn't see the threads in question but I've run into those people before. For the record I'm a Christian. I believe that everybody is entitled to their opinions. I can agree to disagree, if some one wants to get their panties in a knot over that, that's their problem not mine.

  • blondie
    blondie
    John 13:34-35 (New Century Version)

    New Century Version (NCV)

    34 "I give you a new command: Love each other. You must love each other as I have loved you. 35 All people will know that you are my followers if you love each other."

    1 Peter 2:21 (New Century Version)

    New Century Version (NCV)

    21 This is what you were called to do, because Christ suffered for you and gave you an example to follow. So you should do as he did.

  • 5go
    5go

    A true christian despite what the majority of Christians want to think is anyone that professes to be a christian. If you try to say some isn't a christian when say they are then they can you are not a true christian either and be correct.

    No one is truly Christ like we are not for sure how he lived day to day it has been 2000 years since he supposedly lived. Which is why there are so many christian sects calling each other wrong and not christian. No one knows for sure how he lived and they are all guessing.

  • snowbird
    snowbird

    I believe Jesus of Nazareth is the foretold Messiah or Savior of humankind. As such, He is Lord and Master. All those who submit to His authority can be called Christians.

    Deciding whether anyone is a true or false Christian is the Master's prerogative.

    I believe that the Bible is the word or message from God, but that the Bible is only as inerrant or infallible as the humans who wrote it. I believe it is the message that counts, and that message hasn't changed one iota during the milllenia that have elapsed from the time of its first utterance.

    What is that message? Please see my opening statement.

    Thank you for reading.

    Sylvia

  • Caedes
    Caedes

    I think the message I got (I didn't pay a lot of attention to what was said at the meetings but I did read everything I was given) was the one that Blondie quotes, love each other. I always took that to mean love everyone regardless of who they are and the discrepancy between that message and what I saw in my kingdom hall always bothered me.

    I don't see much of that love and compassion or even very much basic human empathy when I hear some of the more vocal 'christians'

    It seems to me that this sort of fundamentalism is far more damaging to christianity than any number of books from Dawkins et al. Whilst it may never get to the stage that Islam is suffering from at the moment I do wonder where it will lead.

    5go, I agree that we can never know what jesus actually taught due to the time difference between his life and the writing of the gospels but I am assuming (for the purpose of this thread) that the gospels are more or less accurate in their depiction of jesus since most christians use them as the basis for their faith (to some degree or other, as pointed out by snowbird)

  • snowbird
    snowbird

    I don't see much of that love and compassion or even very much basic human empathy when I hear some of the more vocal 'christians'

    It seems to me that this sort of fundamentalism is far more damaging to christianity than any number of books from Dawkins et al. Whilst it may never get to the stage that Islam is suffering from at the moment I do wonder where it will lead.

    In my opinion, this lack of love and compassion will be the damning factor when the Master inspects all who claim to be His followers.

    A simple reading of the Gospels shows that is all He asks of us - to love one another. We don't even necessarily have to like each other, but He commands us to love each other. Paradoxical? Not if you research the most used Greek word for love.

    Sylvia

  • 5go
    5go
    5go, I agree that we can never know what jesus actually taught due to the time difference between his life and the writing of the gospels but I am assuming (for the purpose of this thread) that the gospels are more or less accurate in their depiction of jesus since most christians use them as the basis for their faith (to some degree or other, as pointed out by snowbird)

    Then all Christians would be a nihilist then because not even the apostles followed Christ's lead.

    The Anti-Christ (German: Der Antichrist) (also could be translated as The Anti-Christian) is a book by the philosopher Friedrich Nietzsche, originally published in 1895.

    History of Christianity

    [ edit ] Opposite development

    Nietzsche saw a world–historical irony in the way that the Christian Church developed in antithetical opposition to the Evangel and the Gospel of early Christianity. [66] The fable of Christ as miracle–worker and redeemer is not the origin of Christianity. Christianity's history is a "...progressively cruder misunderstanding of an original symbolism...": the death on the cross. [67] Christianity became more diseased, base, morbid, vulgar, low, barbaric and crude. "As the Church, this morbid barbarism itself finally assumes power — the Church, that form of mortal hostility to all integrity, to all loftiness of soul, to discipline of spirit, to all open–hearted and benevolent humanity. — Christian values — noble values... ." [68] Nietzsche expressed contempt for his contemporaries because they mendaciously called themselves Christians but did not act like true Christians. Modern people act with worldly egoism, pride, and will to power in opposition to Christianity's denial of the world. Nietzsche considered this falseness to be indecent. Unlike past ages, his contemporaries knew that sham and unnatural concepts such as "God," "moral world–order," "sinner," "Redeemer," "free will," "beyond," "Last Judgment," and "immortal soul" are consciously employed in order to provide power to the church and its priests. [69] "[T]here was only one Christian, and he died on the cross." [70] "...[O]nly Christian practice, a life such as he lived who died on the cross, is Christian." Thereafter, the opposite kind of life was called Christian. Belief in redemption through Christ is not originally Christian. Genuine, original, primitive Christianity is not a faith. It is state of being that consists of "...a doing, above all a not–doing of many things... ." [71] Jesus' wanted his death on the cross to be an example of how a person can be free from resentment, revenge, and rebellion. The disciples, however, wanted revenge against the Jewish ruling class and high priests who had delivered him to Pilate. They elevated Jesus into being the Messiah and Son of God and promised future judgment and punishment in the kingdom of God. [72] This was in opposition to Jesus' doctrine that everyone could be a child of God and experience Heaven in their present lives by acting in a gentle, loving manner.

    [ edit ] Paul and eternal life

    The apostles claimed that Jesus' death was a sacrifice of an innocent man for the sins of the guilty. But "...Jesus had done away with the concept 'guilt' itself — he had denied any chasm between God and man, he lived this unity of God and man as his 'glad tidings'... ." [73] In order to claim that there is life after death, the apostles ignored Jesus' example of blessed living. Paul made immortality the main point in 1 Corinthians 15:17 when he said "...if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain." "Paul himself even taught personal immortality as a reward." [74] Paul used the promise of life after death as a way to seize tyrannical power over the masses of lower class people. [75] This changed Christianity from a peace movement that achieves actual happiness into a religion whose final judgment offers possible resurrection and eternal life. Paul falsified the history of Christianity, the history of Israel, and the history of mankind by making them all seem to be a preparation for the crucifixion. "The great lie of personal immortality destroys all rationality, all natural in the instincts — all that is healthy, all that is life–promoting, all that guarantees a future now arouses mistrust." [76] The meaning of life is that there is no meaning to present life. One lives for life in the beyond. By offering immortal life after death to everyone, Christianity appealed to everyone's egoism. The laws of nature would be broken for the salvation of everyone. "...[I]t is to this pitiable flattery of personal vanity that Christianity owes its victory — it is with this that it has persuaded over to its side everything ill–constituted, rebellious–minded, under–privileged, all the scum and refuse of mankind." [77] This influenced politics and led to revolutions against aristocracies. Nietzsche claimed that Paul's pretence of holiness and his use of priestly concepts were typically Jewish. Christianity separated itself from Judaism as though it was the chosen religion, "...as if only the 'Christian' were the meaning, the salt, the measure and also the Last Judgment of all the rest." [78] Christianity then divided itself from the world by appropriating "...the concepts 'God,' 'truth,' 'light,' 'spirit,' 'love,' 'wisdom,' 'life' as if these were synonyms of themselves... ." [79] According to Nietzsche, "In Christianity, as the art of holy lying, the whole of Judaism...attains its ultimate perfection." "The Christian is only a Jew of a 'more liberal' persuasion." [80]

  • Caedes
    Caedes

    All the more of a paradox considering our recent discussion on the subject of god sanctioned murder.

  • snowbird
    snowbird

    Even less of a paradox if you believe (as I do) that God doesn't have to explain any of His actions.

    Sylvia

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