The UN Thing

by Princess Daisy Boo 15 Replies latest jw friends

  • Princess Daisy Boo
    Princess Daisy Boo

    I would like to pick the brains of those in the know....

    So I am kinda preparing for the big conversation with my mom, but I am not being brave about it - I have unplugged my phone, just in case she tries to call me tonight

    What I am looking for is a bit of advice on the UN thing... I have read the UN letter, and I have found the JW spin in response.

    What would be a suitable rebuttal for their spin on why they were members?

    Also, what did they stand to gain in the first place aside from access to the library - as I understand it, anyone can basically access it anyway?

    I am wondering why did it take them 11 years to get out of the arrangement. I am sure that Mom's response will be something along the lines of they made a mistake and now they have fixed it, so what?

    I hope you all will forgive my shameless cribbing, but I am working on a bit of a time limit now...

  • sacolton
    sacolton

    The WTBTS spin is "we did it for a library card". Fact is, you don't need a card to access their library. So, what is the reason?
    It doesn't matter. This association with the "Great Harlot" that disgusting thing that causes desolation is a serious matter to all
    Jehovah's Witnesses. How serious? Well, if what the WTBTS teaches were true and Armeggedon were to have happened during
    those eleven years ... would it be fair to say that all people under the WTBTS organization - the entire congregation of Jehovah's
    Witnesses would be destroyed for associating with the "Great Harlot"? Absolutely! Then would it be safe to say that the WTBTS
    put the lives of every congregation into great peril? Yes! For eleven years, the WTBTS was secretly "in bed" with the Wild Beast!
    Once it was discovered, they quietly swept it under the rug hoping some kind of "damage control" would keep it from becoming
    public. Now, any Jehovah's Witness should take this very very seriously! How could a religion that claims to be God's true
    organization have ANY association with the "Great Harlot"? How is that possible?

    The only logical explaination is ... it's not God's organization. It's a false religion and a false prophet.

    Your mom may say, "Well, they learned their lesson. It was a mistake. People make mistakes!"
    True, but when other religions make mistakes - the WTBTS is quick to point and say, "False Religion!", but when the WTBTS
    makes a mistake they call it "human error". See the hypocrisy?

  • Princess Daisy Boo
    Princess Daisy Boo

    Thanks for the response Sacolton - do you think that they resigned because they were found out, or did they resign first and then the whole scandal came to light?

  • Gopher
    Gopher

    Daisy Boo,

    The WTS' affilliation with the UN was first uncovered by Kent from Norway and then fully expounded on this website in August 2001. Here's that historic post by JC MacHislopp. http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/11/10732/1.ashx

    Shortly after that, The Guardian newspaper in the UK published the same information showing that the WTS taught one thing about the UN, but did another by its affiliation as a Non-Governmental Organization.

    Only after all that did the WTS disassociate itself as an NGO. They got caught with their pants down.

  • senora
    senora

    I found excellent information by googling Barbara Anderson. There is also a connection to her off the freeminds site. And the freeminds site in general has excellent information. I printed out the information out of that site to help me explain to others and it was a great help.

  • blondie
    blondie

    BTW the form to be a NGO has to be filled out yearly and had not changed over the ten year period. It wasn't that the WTS filled out the form and discovered ten years later that they had agreed to support the UN Charter by being an NGO. Instead they had received and filled out the form annually for ten years. How much of a mistake could that have been. It is easy to check with the UN as to the requirements to use their library and it does not require becoming an NGO. Easy to check with the UN except they are getting irritated with each inquiry.

    http://www.un.org/dpi/ngosection/pdfs/watchtower.pdf

    http://www.unescap.org/unis/library/LibraryAccess.asp

  • Princess Daisy Boo
    Princess Daisy Boo

    Thank you Blondie, Gopher and Senora... You are all stars...

  • AlmostAtheist
    AlmostAtheist

    Several people have drawn a comparison between the Watchtower's involvement with the U.N. and an average publisher's involvement with the YMCA. As you may know, belonging to the YMCA is a disfellowshipping offense. But what if a publisher merely joined to have access to the swimming pool? Would it be ok then?

    If not, would it be enough for the publisher to just cancel his membership? Or would he need to meet with the elders? What if the publisher vehemently defended his actions, "But I only did it to get access to the pool! I don't need to 'repent'!" The elders would certainly counsel him for his lack of repentence, and may even disfellowship him anyway.

    The Watchtower did discontinue their membership, though I believe history shows they did it only AFTER their membership was made public. But they have never said, "This was a mistake, and we're sorry".

    The double-standard evident in their handling of their own missteps and those of their members is disturbing.

    Dave

  • blondie
    blondie

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2001/oct/15/religion.unitednations

    'Hypocrite' Jehovah's Witnesses abandon secret link with UN

    This article appeared in the Guardian on Monday October 15 2001 . It was last updated at 01:28 on October 15 2001. The Jehovah's Witnesses have hurriedly disaffiliated from the United Nations within days of a Guardian story in which members accused the sect of hypocrisy for supporting an organisation it has repeatedly denounced privately.

    After the article last Monday, the organisation's New York based hierarchy pre-empted a UN inquiry by agreeing to dissociate the Witnesses from an organisation which it holds to be the scarlet beast named in the Book of Revelation.

    The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, as the sect is formally known, has 6m members worldwide and 130,000 in Britain. It had been secretly affiliated to the UN as a non-governmental organisation for 10 years.

    Recognised organisations are supposed to demonstrate that they share the UN's objectives, but Witnesses are instead told by elders to regard it as "a disgusting thing in the sight of God and his people" for allegedly aspiring to world domination like Babylon the Great, the beast in Revelation.

    The sect does not believe in participating in government and initially strove to play down or deny the evidence of the UN's website, which lists it as one of 1,500 affiliated NGOs.

    Those bringing the evidence to light were accused of apostacy. Disaffiliated members become known informally, like the rest of humanity, as "bird seed" in line with biblical prophesy of the fate of non-believers, whose corpses will be pecked bare by crows.

    Within hours of the article's appearance on the Guardian website on Monday and its posting on a Jehovah's Witnesses bulletin board, more than 14,000 people across the world had read it.

    By yesterday there were 353 official posts and 325 message boards discussing the article and its revelations, with Witnesses in the US demanding to see copies of the paper.

    Jehovah's Witnesses link to UN queried

    Sect accused of hypocrisy over association with organisation it has demonised.

    This article appeared in the Guardian on Monday October 08 2001 . It was last updated at 23:42 on October 07 2001. The United Nations is being asked to investigate why it has granted associate status to the Jehovah's Witnesses, the fundamentalist US-based Christian sect, which regards it as the scarlet beast predicted in the Book of Revelation.

    Disaffected members of the 6m-strong group, which has 130,000 followers in the UK, have accused the Witnesses' elderly governing body of hypocrisy in secretly accepting links with an organisation that they continue to denounce in apocalyptic terms.

    The UN itself admitted yesterday that it was surprised that the sect, whose formal name is the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, had been accepted on its list of non-governmental organisations for the last 10 years.

    A former member said: "There is a glaring inconsistency which has emerged between the WTBTS's frequent portrayal of the UN as an evil organisation and its behind-the-scenes attempts to curry favour with that organisation. Were individual members to be aware of any formal link they would be devastated.

    "By no stretch of the imagination could the WTBTS be considered to share the ideals of the UN charter unless you suppose that destruction of the UN by God is consistent with that charter."

    The Witnesses, most frequently encountered by non-members when they attempt to make doorstep conversions, have faced accusations of bad faith before.

    These have been most notably over the hierarchy's insistence that members should not accept blood transfusions and over accusations that sexual abuse of children by Witnesses' ministers in the US have been covered up.

    Followers who criticise the Witnesses' leaders or question their decisions are routinely "disfellowshipped" which means fellow members including their families must shun them.

    An obscure and ill-publicised decision by the hierarchy in New York last year modifying the prohibition on transfusions by deeming that God had revealed to them that transfusions of some blood components might be acceptable, providing there was later repentance, has come too late for many hundreds of followers known to have died because they refused blood.

    In child abuse cases, the hierarchy insists there must be two independent witnesses - an almost impossible stipulation - before accusations are investigated.

    The Watchtower Society has been denouncing the UN and its predecessor the League of Nations for 80 years, believing them to be a world empire of false religion, predicted in the Book of Revelation.

    A recent publication since the organisation obtained its recognition describes the UN as "a disgusting thing in the sight of God and his people".

    In an internal document, the WTBTS describes its policy as a "theocratic war strategy". It claims: "In time of spiritual warfare it is proper to misdirect the enemy by hiding the truth. It is done unselfishly; it does not harm anyone; on the contrary it does much good."

    Being a recognised NGO with the United Nations - as more than 1,500 organisations are - gives status though not grants.

    To qualify, organisations must show that they share the ideals of the charter, operate on a non-profit basis, "demonstrate interest in UN issues and proven ability to reach large or specialised audiences" and have the commitment and means to conduct effective information programmes about UN activities.

    Disaffected Witnesses believe that the association, which has not been publicised to followers, is intended to increase the cult's respectability to sceptical governments, such as France's, which have refused to recognise it.

    Paul Gillies, the Witnesses' spokesman in Britain, said: "We do not have hostile attitudes to governing bodies and if we are making representations on issues to the UN we will do so."

    "There are good and bad bodies just as there are good and bad politicians. We believe what the Book of Revelation tells us but we do not actively try to change the political system."

    A spokeswoman for the UN said: "I think we may not be aware of their attitude, which seems to be really strange."

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2001/oct/08/religion.world

  • Homerovah the Almighty
    Homerovah the Almighty

    It would be interesting to know who the individuals were that sighed them up as a NGO and what if any punishment was handed down to them for taking that direct action.

    I have never seen or heard of any kind of penalties issued to anyone regarding the whole affair.

    If it was indeed one or two GB members that were involved I doubt it likely anything was done to them, they were probably more concerned on keeping things hushed

    at HQ for obvious reasons. Rumors and words spread just as fast in Brooklyn as it does in any KH across the country.

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