Is This a Universal Characteristic of Religion?

hamilcarr

Thanks to all who participated in the moral values discussion, I think it was a 'high'-quality (wink at Zico --- from 'the highest year') debate. Some posters rightly claimed I was too rash in my generalisations of religion and atheism. So, I kept on searching for the universal characteristics of religion, I mean those features common to all forms of worship. I'll try this one: the belief that human existence is full of suffering and therefore human beings are in need of salvation. I want to stress this is only an hypothesis which needs to be tested and criticized, it's not at all an observation.

I could put it this way as well:

are there any atheists who believe mankind is in need of salvation and if so why don't you believe?

are there any believers who don't believe this and if so why do you believe?

Your comments and critical notes are more than welcome...

Regards,

H.

Sad emo

I've come to wonder what we need salvation from - our sins or ourselves?

For are not our 'sins' essentially the ways we fail to interact well with the rest of creation? - the bad attitudes, anger, hatred, fear etc.

Are they therefore a part of ourselves or our personalities in some way? Is this 'sin' the stuff that holds us back from good relationships and inner peace?

Maybe this is what Jesus meant by being born again, and having life to the full, and what Paul meant when he called for Christians to renew their minds?

I guess too its a bit like the chicken-egg question - which came first - our selves or our 'sins'?

I shall ponder these things more now as I drift away to the land of nod! g'nite!

VoidEater

What do you mean by "salvation"?

It's nice to have the experience of being forgiven when we do wrong. Other people can forgive us.

It's nice realizing we have no inherent "original" sin to overcome. We can unlearn this guilt.

It's good to realize we can make mistakes and that we can work towards correcting mistakes. We can be accountable and responsible to others.

It's good to realize that we are continually capable of growing and making changes to ourselves. We can evolve.

Does any of this touch on what "salvation" means to you?

Cheers -Void

hamilcarr

I see what you mean, Void. These are all non-religious forms of salvation, I don't wonna start a linguistic discussion but I think these are examples of relief rather than salvation, which I consider a more solemn concept.

VoidEater

I don't think Buddhism has quite an equivelant to Christian "salvation", although the eventual release from the wheel of life might substitute for it. Even then, choosing to incarnate when released is viewed as a laudable act, and may be anti-salvation.

Again, depends on the definition of "salvation".

hamilcarr

I'm glad you take Buddhism as an example. One of the key premises of Buddhism is that life is suffering and that we need salvation, which cannot be reached during a normal earthly life.

Are there any religions that don't proclaim something similar?

hamilcarr

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nirvana

Nibbana is a word used by the Buddha to describe the perfect peace of the mind that is free from craving, anger and other afflictive states (kilesa). This peace, which is in reality the fundamental nature of the mind, is revealed when the root causes of the afflictive states are dissolved. The causes themselves (see sankhara) lie deep within the mind (that part of the mind that Western psychology calls the unconscious) but their undoing is gradually achieved by living a disciplined life (see eightfold path). In Nibbana the root causes of craving and aversion have been extinguished such that one is no longer subject to human suffering (dukkha) or further states of rebirths in samsara.

Reads like a good definition of salvation ...

hamilcarr

In theology, salvation can mean three related things:* being saved from something, such as suffering or the punishment of sin - also called deliverance;* being saved for something, such as an afterlife or participating in the Reign of God - also called redemption;* being saved through a process ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salvation

IP_SEC

are there any atheists who believe mankind is in need of salvation and if so why don't you believe?

Atheist.

No, salvation from what? Bah! I am not a sinner nor am I imperfect.

worldtraveller

Salvation as in saving oneself? Saving from what? Eternal hell? Being destroyed? Being stuck at the pearly gates? I personally believe that no matter what you do or think, we all are heading for the same place. So why worry about it and miss all what life offers.

Salivation is more to my liking. As in at the all you can eat buffet. Much more fun.

Is This a Universal Characteristic of Religion?

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