Are We Any Better Than the Witnesses?

by Caljuher 38 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  Gopher

  honey attracts more flies than vinegar

  Honey is too sweet for my taste, vinegar a little too bitter. I'd like something in-between.

  If someone is spouting an irrational view with no reasoning, I'd think a taste of vinegar would be good. But those cases are the minority here on this board.

  You're right that people's feelings do become involved, and we should remember we are talking to real people here. And yet again, participation in any discussion here is entirely voluntary. If a person gets "hurt" too often here, they either need to lower their expectations about the level of comfort to expect on an anonymous discussion board or develop a slightly thicker skin. This place in no way replaces real life. Ha - I should talk, someone who's made almost 9000 posts here.
• 

  VoidEater

  Is JWD better than WTS?

  I think so - JWD doesn't suppress thought with the threat of death, or try to enforce association rules based on beliefs.

  Although individuals are at times rather strident that those who do not believe as they do are doomed in some way.

  Still, that's waaaaaaaay better than the WTS.
• 

  VoidEater

  people, like me, can also trying to appeal to the minds and hearts of others to not let ourselves get torn apart in the process.

  I commend you on this laudable goal. I encourage you to be the kind of change you'd like to see.
• 

  Awakened07

  I think one should be able to expect 'respect' in the sense that ad hominem attacks should be avoided, but if one has specific views on scientific or religious (or other) matters, one must expect to be asked to defend those views by explaining how one has reached those conclusions.

  If a creationist says "I believe everything in the universe was created no more than ~6000 years ago", and I simply reply "OK, great. ", and in another thread I say I believe science has showed that the earth has to be billions of years old, and the same creationist replies with a simple "OK, great. ", that would be very (overly) respectful on both parties, but no one would have learned anything from it. A discussion board like this should stimulate people into thinking of why they hold a specific view. Many people have certain views simply because that's the way they've been brought up, and the views have never really been weighed up against competing ideas. Wouldn't hurt to think a little about it. It wouldn't be disrespectful to ask people to explain why they hold those views.

  Unfortunately, sometimes just the act of asking the person to elaborate on the reasoning behind the views are construed as attacks. And sometimes, snide remarks and sarcasm is very tempting to use, because one feels the other person haven't thought things through. I try to avoid it, but I have probably done it anyway.

  However - - as said, personal attacks ("you frickin' idiot!") only lead to animosity and hardens the other person's views, and closes them off from further thinking. So some respect should be displayed, otherwise we're just stroking our own ego and preaching to the choir, instead of possibly giving others valuable information.

  But yo can't demand it, I'm afraid. The internet is a jungle. Lots of weird people out here. One has to grow a thicker skin, and also learn how these things work. Some people are trolls, only posting in order to get a rise out of people, and it takes some time to learn who is what.

  Expect though, that in an internet debate, one can't just fling out assertions without being able to back them up with sources, like one can in everyday, person-to-person discussions.
• 

  drew sagan

  There are people who have a lot of anger. Some is justified, some really isn't. To each his own.
  
  The WTS has created a lot of pain. For me it was easy to look past it all. I really don't have any anger towards anybody there.
  
  I think an important thing to recognize about this board is that the people here are all at different stages in their life. Some are still in the Watchtower, some are in the process of leaving, some have been gone for years. There is a lot of variety here and I don't think it can all be summed up into one description.
• 

  cognizant dissident

  We are not better than the Witnesses, just deluded about one less religion than they are.

  think you are going somewhere with this cause it seems the few people i have commented with on this board are athiest after leaving the wts and that is sad.

  Funny, I don't feel sad about being an atheist. Quiet happy about it actually. I was much more depressed as a JW!

  Cog

  ps: It's true that people get into very heated debates on this forum and sometimes even trade insults, but at the end of the day, I bet even the majority of those people who seem like enemies on this board as far as viewpoints go, do not wish each other death at Armageddon, or any other bodily harm. I bet most of them would have no problem shaking hands at an apostafest, eating a meal together and laughing about some of their past board wars. So, in that one respect, I would say, yes, we are better than JW's.
• 

  WTWizard

  The thing about these boards is that they give people a place to speak their opinions and beliefs without having a group of people trying to force them to believe anything. There are numerous boards that are dedicated to those leaving the Watchtower Society that wish to remain or become Christian. This board is more about discussing all the options, theist and atheist (and even Satanism). We discuss our opinions about the Bible itself, how well the Watchtower Society follows it, and whether such is good or bad for the majority of people in the religion.

  I always suggest doing just what the Watchtower Society bans: doing independent research. If you want to go to a church, I suggest doing as much independent research on that church as you can before committing yourself to avoid getting into another cult or scam. Many people will ultimately choose to go back to a church, and they should in fact feel free to do just that. Others will not, since they have had it with religion or they found the whole Bible full of faults. That is their choice, too. Still others will engage in some form of Devil worship (as long as they are not initiating force, coercion, and/or fraud, they are not breaking any laws in doing so, and their First Amendment right to freedom of religion stands).

  I personally stand by freedom to choose for oneself what religion to join, if any. Research is always a good idea before joining, and it should include sources on both sides. If, after you have done your homework, you choose to join a church, then it is probably the right choice for you. However, the same church might not be right for someone else. That is one good thing about a religiously neutral forum like this one.
• 

  Seeker4

  Sure there are some folks here who are angry, and a few that are abusive.
  
  But don't mistake the rough and tumble that comes with the free and open debate of ideas with hatred or anger. In the Witness organization, there is no allowance for open debate, and having it here is simply wonderful.
  
  If I write something on here that is stupid, and someone points that out to me, I don't think they hate me, they're just telling me something I need to be told. And they also sure as hell better have proof and evidence that what I wrote was stupid, as I will defend that idea strongly if I feel that are mistaken.
  
  If, as someone wrote above, it's "sad" that so many of us who left the Witnesses became atheists, I don't mind expressing how sad I feel that so many who left the Witnesses continue to remain believers in ancient mythological gods despite all rational evidence against their existence (the gods, that is)!
  
  Don't confuse the vigorous debate of ideas with anger or bitterness. For many of us the joy of open debate is one of the great gifts in leaving the WTS.
  
  Also, your link above is confusing. Where are you trying to take us?
  
  S4
• 

  Gopher

  Also, your link above is confusing. Where are you trying to take us?

  That link was to the announcements page. The most recent announcement was Simon's thread "Getting the Forum Back on Track". I think that's where the Original Poster was trying to take us.
• 

  undercover

  Another thing is that we're all in a different phase of our "recovery", so to speak, of leaving the oppression of the WTS.

  Anger and bitterness are normal feelings that most feel after they realize they've been duped.

  Some display that anger more readily than others. Others, especially those who have been around awhile now, have let the anger and bitterness go enough to not let it consume them.

  It's only natural for newly freed ones to have extreme feelings for awhile and this is the perfect place to vent and seek solace. If the anger/bitterness persists, however, it can be damaging. I can think of a couple people who let it consume them and they became quite unbalanced.