by joelbear 35 Replies latest jw friends
Hey NY:
One more question..
Do you believe that Jesus died FOR EVERYONE's sins? That obviously would include good and evil people, right?
How do you value someone giving one's life for another? An act of love and friendship???
Well, if Jesus died for everyone, past, present and future, wouldn't that mean that he LOVES everyone, past, present and future? He doesn't even know the people, yet he died for them.. If that isn't UNCONDITIONAL LOVE, I'd like to hear your explanation..
Wannahelp;
I am not saying to literally ignore him and not reply to his posts, I am encouraging those who are offended by his replies to ignore the nature of them. Ny has made some rude remarks to me on some of my posts that I felt were totally unecessary. What is the purpose in being that way? Almost everything he/she replies is sarcastic or just downright rude and uncalled for, not encouraging in the least. I think this person just loves to get reactions from people, and is not here for any other purpose.
Just my humble opinion.
Hey Joelbear...don't forget the idea of shunning is a scriptural one and is adopted by a number of belief systems. You can't really be surprised about it all. Its poor though. IMO opinion if you join a cult expect crap if you leave.
Best
ISP
Hi Vita,
Ahh, I wasn't aware that he/she had personally attacked you.. Sorry about that.. I find it interesting that people need to resort to insults and such when trying to defend something they believe in.. To me, that's a sure fire sign that they really cannot logically defend those beliefs, but instead resort to insults, personal attacks, etc as to divert attention from the real issue... If he/she starts doing similiar to me, then I too will probably begin to ignore him..
ISP:
Where is it in scripture that it states to SHUN people??? I'm not aware of any scripture that says to shun.. All I'm aware of is to treat them "as you would a tax collector", but I'm certainly not well versed in the bible, so maybe it is scriptural.. I'd love to see the scriptures..
- Wannahelp
Wannahelp,
That verse you cited said "let him be to you as a tax collector or a man of the nations".
JW's jump all over that verse for justification of shunning. But really what they do is treat shunned ones WORSE than a tax collector, or WORSE than people of the nations. Their thinking is more akin to ancient Israel's treatment of accused ones: take 'em outside the city gates and stone 'em to death!
GopherWhy shouldn't truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense.
Mark Twain (1835-1910)
OUTLAW,
Right on
minds are like parachutes--they only function when open.
Howdy Gopher,
You said:
"That verse you cited said "let him be to you as a tax collector or a man of the nations".
Ahh, that's what I thought the verse was that they used, which is why I asked where in the scriptures it says to shun people, because as you rightly point out, that scripture says ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about shunning people!!!
Thanks for clearing that one up!!!!
ISP:
So, What scripture are you talking about that says to shun, and what other religions do you know of that practice shunning?
OUTLAW:
Just because someone that you thought was your friend turns out to be under the influence of mind control and does NOT return that friendship, how do you stop loving that person? More importantly, why would you want to stop loving that person?
How can you hold it against 'them' that they are doing something so awful and unscriptural even though they have been 'programmed' and aren't even aware of what they are really doing? I feel extreme pity for these people, and I love them even more.
I wouldn't know how to stop loving people that I consider my friends, and quite frankly I don't think I want to learn, either...
Hmmm,
No more NYTELECOM, and where is ISP..
I guess that says it all folks..
When the going get's tough, the Witnesses run for the hills instead of defend the undefensible...
Here is another thought, and I'd like to state it rather bluntly:
Borgians adhere to the practice of shunning because they want to save their own precious butts and "spiritual standing" and opportunities to rise up the corporate leadership ladder.
There seems to be, at least what I've experienced in the perhaps ten congregations I've attended in the past, various interpretations of just how much spin to apply the "admonitions" as they are provided in the magazines. I'm afraid I don't have much insight into books that are available only to elders, CO's, etc, but imagine that there is a certain amount of "man-made" dictates (dependent upon the predilections/ temperament of the current "leadership" ensconced in their individual fiefdoms) that are used to define just how, and when, and why, and under what circumstances, with whatever exceptions, the very broad principles that actually appear in bible scripture.
Anyone who has had a fool or an idiot for an employer knows how capricious their judgments and whims can be. Isn't it usually a requirement to suck up to that in order to achieve promotions and other perks?
Some borgians will do anything to preserve a perfectly "untainted" status so they can be used in assembly parts, give special talks, scrub toilets in sports arenas, etc.
So, Joelbear, while entirely agreeing with you and everyone else's take on this abusive policy, I am a cynic and really think much of the motive is self-preservation. I'm with you on your saying A friend is a friend forever (well, unless they try to, like, kill you or something). And I'll make my OWN decisions about maintaining ties with someone, especially when judgment is rendered behind closed doors. I want to know from my friend's own mouth what their situation is, and the "rule" of never speaking to them again is insane, and requires one to completely believe that whatever "sentance" that the lard-butt group of uneducated power freaks has handed down is legitimate.
I'll talk to anyone, with as much respect as possible, whenever I damn well feel like it.
Oooh, that felt good to write, and thanks for the good thread topic.
lauralisa, who is pretty fired up these days
ps: I had to look up the word "ensconce" in the dictionary. My eyes fell right on the word "enough".....
It's only water from a stranger's tear (Peter Gabriel)
