by WTWizard 34 Replies latest watchtower bible
Perhaps I should pray that the voices don't tell you to kill me for my lack of faith.
Revelation 22:20 He who testifies to all these things says it again: "I'm on my way! I'll be there soon!" Yes! Come, Master Jesus!
You mean those voices? Nah.
Sylvia
I doubt that there is much scientific evidence for brain chemistry or emotion physically moving mountains.
You missed the point. But this board is chock full of people who have shut their minds up totally to the
possibility that there are actually forces at play that we cannot see nor comprehend at this time. Our
science is still much too small and inadequate. It has made great strides, but there is still so much to
be revealed. Quantum physics is opening new doors all the time. Perhaps a new branch of science
will widen the path. But many of you have the firm mindset that if Science can't show me now, then it
doesn't exist. You are afraid to stay open-minded for fear you will be thought a fool. Tsk...tsk.
Everything is vibration, including thought, feeling, and emotion. Scientific experiments have been done that
explores the relationship between vibration and form. Geometric patterns can be created in materials such
as water, oil, and certain powders using certain vibrations. These patterns are simply the visible form of an
invisible force. Who is to say that the vibration created by the RIGHT thought combined with RIGHT feeling and
RIGHT emotion doesn't create a disturbance in the "stuff" they are projected into....the refined substance of
consciousness. Each has an effect. When it comes to prayer, be open-minded enough to entertain the possiblity
that if done correctly using the proper technology, you can "move mountains".
Prayer serves a psychological function - positive affirmation, hope, managed expectations - that translates into physical changes in the body (reduced stress and the like). Prayer seems to have the same positive impact as biofeedback or meditation.
Somewhat sadly, the "big splash" study of a few years ago that concluded that praying for others led to higher recovery rates has been debunked. I knew a researcher peripherally involved in that study, BTW, who coincidentally died from cancer two years ago. Despite her belief in the intiial study results, her participation in studies in Northern California to replicate the results, and the large group of people praying for her, she did not survive her illness.
Beyond that, for every person saved by prayer there's another ignored in prayer.
For every team that God granted victory on the gridiron, court, etc., there is a team He led to defeat.
If indeed the Lord giveth and taketh away, based on inscrutable and unknown premises, the net effect for pragmatists like me is a null sum equation - it's the same as chaos, it's the same as no effect, it's just random stuff.
If God is given credit for the good in the world, he must also take the blame for the bad.
Journey: It's an interesting field of inquiry, as theory, but there is no technology there to act upon it. The problem with the cat being neither dead nor alive until we observe it leaves out the observations of the cat, which my observations show were probably most concerned with hunger.
I'm rather open to a lot of things, but at some point some evidence has to be presented that there's something more than randomness goig on. This is usually done with repeatable experiments.
I think we'll probably get matter-energy-matter transportation at some point, and we've seen some pretty cool "thought activated" switches that start sparking hopes of a cyperpunk future. But as you allude there's hardware involved when acting upon the outer world.
Your own prayer impacing your own inner world? Yes, I think we see that all the time. Is that evidence of a transcendent being? Not necessarily.
VE,
Beyond that, for every person saved by prayer there's another ignored in prayer.
As former one missionary&bethel elder would say so forcefully in answering his own rhetorical question which was the theme of his entire 55min talk: ""Does Jehovah Answer All Prayers?",,,,, The answer my dear brothers is,,, "Yes" but sometimes the answer is "No"."
BTW, I think you mightily under estimated the the ratio of ignored or "No" answered prayers with a big fat generous 1:2 ratio or 50% 50% crap shoot odds. It is more like 1 in a thousand, at least from the POV that I and others have, with reguards to actually recieving something we could point to inconclusively that might be with a little/or lot of help from the imagination as an answered prayer from the big hot headed sky daddy, Jehovah.
If what you call "prayer" is more like meditation then I can not see the harm.
I don't think there is a god that's answers prayers. Just ask yourself why does god not heal amputees but apparently he will heal other problems?
Hi Frankie:
BTW, I think you mightily under estimated the the ratio of ignored or "No" answered prayers with a big fat generous 1:2
I was just trying to be a little generous...!
If you believe in prayer then it is for real
Maddie
But this board is chock full of people who have shut their minds up totally to the possibility that there are actually forces at play that we cannot see nor comprehend at this time. Our science is still much too small and inadequate. It has made great strides, but there is still so much to be revealed..... Many of you have the firm mindset that if Science can't show me now, then it doesn't exist.
It's undoubtedly true there will be future scientific evidence that opens up new worlds to us. Will this evidence include support for the idea that prayer is beneficial or real? I doubt it, and I think such doubt is reasonable, and such doubt would not make me "close-minded".
I mean this: If concrete scientifically measurable and reproduceable evidence someday shows that prayer can work (beyond the placebo effect), then prayer would be a KNOWN beneficial factor.
Earlier in this thread, I referenced a study done across six hospitals that measured actual results from prayer. If anything, prayer was proven to be harmful to heart patients. As to why, I don't know. Maybe there are "forces we cannot see or comprehend" that cause prayers to be harmful to hospital patients.
The "forces we cannot see" argument can goes either way.
VE,
I was just trying to be a little generous...!
I know, bless your heart. I just couldn't resist taking umbrage with your generous benifit of the doubt statement.
