Ideas to help w/ Still-believing mates

by FreeWilly 16 Replies latest jw experiences

  • TD

    This mignt not be exactly what you're looking for:

    I've gradually come to the conclusion that its a mistake to attack a believing mate's religious beliefs in any way. The frontal assault must come from within.

    Instead, try to promote a more realistic view of the world itself. Ultimately, all religious beliefs are built upon more basic beliefs, presuppositions and assumptions The JW worldview is unrealistic and facile in so many ways that the opportunities for this are endless once you start looking.

    For example, my wife and I were watching the movie, "March of the Penguins" For those who haven't seen this movie, it basically covers a year in the life of emperor penguins, especially the incubation of eggs and rearing of chicks. About three-quarters of the way through the movie, my wife says, "That's just amazing" and I reply, "And they were created that way right from the beginning...."

    The problem here is if the emperor penguin was originally created for an antarctic climate than the JW notion of the entire earth being semi-tropical paradise is hogwash, but if the emperor penguin was not originally created for an antarctic climate than the JW notion of every species being individually created is hogwash. Either way, part of the JW worldview is hogwash. Of course, neither conclusion will cause one to leave the JW's and that's not the point. The point is to get them comfortable with the idea of thinking, questioning and looking beyond the facile.

    In no particular order, these are a few things that challenge the JW worldview in non-threatening ways: (I'm sure others could add to this list)

    The Schwarzenegger movie, "The Sixth Day" graphically shows that re-creating a person and restoring their memories (JW resurrection?) is not quite the same thing as bringing the original back. (e.g. What happens if this is done while you're still alive?)

    Any boat, larger than a canoe leaks. The Nina, Pinta and Santa Maria were relatively small ships (The held 20, 26 and 40 people respectively) yet they each required a bilge pump. The larger the ship, the larger the pump. Truly large ships (Noah's Ark?) have to be pumped by motors.

    No member of the cat family can synthesize taurine, an essential amino acid. Taurine is not found in plants, it is only found in meat.

    The interpretation of the Bible books, Daniel and Revelation has a long and colorful history going back over a thousand years. Many of these interpreters have taken an allegorical, egocentric view of these books, interpreting them in ways that would have been alien to original author or authors. (Revelation, Its Grand Climax?) These type of interpretations quickly become outdated and laughable. (The Finished Mystery?)

    Some of the pyramids are older than the JW date for Noah's Flood. (Because pyramids aligned to the cardinal points, the original building date can be calculated accurately since the rate of the earth's axial precession is known.)

    People are inherently unable to be rational when their religious beliefs are challenged. In line with your reading recommendations, the hatemail that Mormon "Apostates" like Jerald and Sandra Tanner have recieved is a non-threatening way to get this point across. (JW's believe that people are capable of being rational and in fact, God judges them on this basis. That's the whole premise behind parallels between themselves and "The Watchman")

  • Homerovah the Almighty
    Homerovah the Almighty

    That is a good idea TD I've tried a positive rational suggestion with my jw sister for example noting the fact the most of the dinosaurs were carnivorous

    and pointed out why did god make these animals like that ?

    There many ways and options you can try and use without being overly offensive.

    The sad and unfortunate part is you can see them getting unbalanced and nervous when you do point out ideas which are directly against

    their established beliefs so do have to be tactful.

  • bite me
    bite me

    It is really nice to see that I am not the only one in this situation.

  • Hermano

    Good thread. Many good suggestions. My wife and I watched a program about the Waco incident, and I could tell it made her think a little bit, because the people inside the complex really beleived they had The Truth.

  • llbh

    Thanks for posts all i am in the same situation with fervent JW wife so the suggestions were welcome


  • jgnat

    I follow Steve Hassan's approach, assuming that there are two personalities trapped inside my JW husband. There's his natural self and his cult-self. I do my best not to alarm the cult-self (that makes him come roaring to the fore), and include many activities that bring out the natural man.

    Probably the biggest newbie mistake is to broadside the cultist with your new information. This can literally set you back years, as you and all your information immediately becomes suspect.

    It's gotten to the point where I can spot the difference between the two personalities. I then tailor my conversation depending on "who" I am talking to. I bring out my doubts only to the natural man. For him to stew over in private.

    I'm collecting success stories from the board as well, and the progression seems to be something like this. One partner "wakes up". He does his research and sets on a deliberate plan of progressive information to his partner. He might leave information out for her to find, for instance, without confronting her directly. When she first starts to wonder if he's still in the "truth" he reassures her that his feelings for her have not changed. She's been secretly doubting for a while, so she is somewhat receptive. Fearfully at first, she looks a few things over. The light comes on, and she devours the information. Miffed, she asks him why he took so long to share? They both move out of town and fade out of sight of the local congregation.

    Here's an example of a successful "outing" of an entire family, on Randy's site:

  • FreeWilly
    My wife and I watched a program about the Waco incident, and I could tell it made her think a little bit

    That's exactly the effect reading the Books about these Mormon sects had.

    Researching Mormonism is what initially helped me "wake up". The roots of their beliefs were so whacky (to me) that I really tried to understand how anyone could truly cling to them. The exercise in critical thinking inevitably turned inward. The rest is history.

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