Abstain from Blood...

by hotchocolate 35 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • hotchocolate
    hotchocolate

    My first post was a few days ago now, and finally my heart has stopped pounding whenever I log on.. :-)

    So, I have been in the truth all my life, 3rd generation witness, never left, never been in trouble, pioneered for years, and am a respected member of my congregation. At the moment. ;-)

    So a couple of people asked what my doubts are with regard to the witnesses, and the information I've found represents months and months of study. This is not a conclusion I have come to lightly.. along the way I have met regularly with the elders here to see whether there is anything I'm missing in my research, but you know - I'm beginning to realise that I have been given a functioning brain and heart for a reason, and maybe I need to start listening to those things for once in my life!

    I haven't had a chance to outline my research in a logical way yet, so I figure by writing on this board I can kill a couple of birds. :-) So to speak.

    SO - My first problem with the witnesses is also the issue I am most convinced of. That is the refusal of blood transfusions. I'm sure a lot of what I say here are points that others have already discovered or realised.. so bear with me. :-)

    A few years ago I was faced with making a conscience decision about a blood fraction. This is where I initially encountered some confusion. I went away and poured over the WT's information, and came away with two conclusions.

    1. The same blood fractions can pass naturally between mother and child during pregnancy. AND
    2. The refusal of this fraction could result in the death of any future child I may have, and I could not justify refusing something that was ultimately a "conscience" product when that may infringe on the sanctity of life.

    So I decided to go ahead with the treatment. BUT. I had some nagging doubts at this point. These were

    A. As witnesses, part of our belief is that we are to pour out the blood on the ground - and to create this fractions, this doesn't happen. The blood is collected, stored and processed. And also, to me, blood is blood. Are we abstaining or not?
    B. I found out since that whole blood also passes from mother to child, so this negates the initial reasoning I was led to by the WT articles I read.
    C. When I thought about point 2 (above) I had this little voice that kept telling me that this same principle could, in effect, be applied to whole blood. Could I refuse a transfusion and allow a death if God's law clearly states that life is sacred? Wouldn't that then be breaking two laws?

    To elaborate on that - I remember a conversation I had with a brother a year or so ago, and he was saying how he'd cut his finger and put it in his mouth. And a sister had told him it was wrong. He made the point that the witnesses often misunderstand the law about blood. Blood is a representation of life. It was the LIFE that was the big deal, not the actual blood. The laws about pouring out blood and not eating it was to remind people that life is sacred. To take a SYMBOL of life and make it even more important than what the symbol MEANS - just to me is not logical. It doesn't ring true.

    To back up this point, I remember a person raising something at my pioneer school. They said when we eat meat, even after we pour out the blood - there is still some residue of blood left in the meat. (And I found that this point is backed up in the WT51 7/1) I remember the CO saying that our requirement is not to be particular over whether there is still some blood, but that by pouring out the blood we've fulfilled God's requirement of showing sacredness of life. This to me is further proof that the actual blood itself is not the issue - the issue is LIFE.

    Another point. Each time blood is talked about in the Bible, it is in relation to a life taken. I mean, isn't that the whole point? A life is taken and it's "lifeblood" is given back to God. But with a blood donor, there's no life taken, so this principle is pointless. I have looked this up on the CD-ROM, and the same article mentioned above (WT51 7/1 p414) brings out the example of David in 1 Chron 11:17-19. This was basically a story about how David wanted some water. Three guys risked their lives trying to get it, but when they brought it back, David wouldn't drink it. He felt if he did he would be bloodguilty. So he compared it to blood and poured it out. This account is used to prove that it doesn't matter whether the blood donor is still alive or not (because the men were still alive). In my humble opinion, this argument is severely flawed on so many levels. It's not that complicated! This wasn't actual blood he was refusing to take, it was water! And the reason? Because the men might have died. The principle to this story is not about blood, it is about the sacredness of life. I'm afraid for the life of me I cannot see how this story relates to blood transfusions.

    The other problem I have is with the change in thought on some blood fractions. My understanding (correct me if I'm wrong) is that for years, witnesses did not have immunisation, and other blood fractions. And I have heard (and would presume) that this resulted in deaths. There is a feeling amongst witnesses that even if we now know this wasn't technically correct, the important thing was that they had still made a stand for Jehovah, and that this life is fleeting and imperfect, and that they will be resurrected to a superior perfect life. But what this argument fails to take into account is that God has made it clear in the Bible that ANY life is considered as sacred, regardless of whether that life be imperfect or temporary. In the old law, if I life was taken, there were serious consequences, and bloodguilt attached. We hear so often about the bloodguilt of Christendom for the deaths during the Dark Ages, and my thought is: What of the deaths that did result from the laws placed upon Jehovah's Witnesses, which we have now seen were incorrectly imposed? New light and understanding I guess I can perhaps understand... but we are now talking about a erroneous understanding that has led to the death of innocent people. I'm just not sure I can see how God would be a part of that.

    If anyone can see a flaw in my logic, please tell me... I'm really interested in hearing other ideas on this...

    These are all just my own thoughts, I don't want to impose any of these views upon anyone else, but this has been bubbling around inside me - and with noone willing to listen my only outlet is here! Hope that's okay! :-)

    xxxx

    PS I'm not on IE so I'm using html... hope it worked okay!

  • cognizant dissident
    cognizant dissident

    Welcome Hotchocolate

    The blood transfusion issue was really the clincher for me that led me to leave the organization also. I had to study about blood and it's fractions for nursing school. This was the same year the society came out with it's article on blood fractions (2001). I immediately saw that their position was illogical and misinformed.

    There is no flaw in your logic. The flaw is 100% on thier side and anyone with the least amount of critical thinking skills can see through it.

    I also had many doubts about their other beliefs, but in the end what did many of them really matter. 1914, 1919, 1935. Whatever. Belief in most doctrines and teachings just meant that many witnesses wasted an awful lot of their spare time learning and teaching stuff that was fairytales, when they could have been home watching much better fairytales on TV.

    However, the blood issue is different. Now you are asking people to martyr their lives and their childrens lives for those fairy stories. This is unconscionable. There comes a time when one must morally make a stand. This is the issue for me.

    Cog

  • Homerovah the Almighty
    Homerovah the Almighty

    Yes HC your post came out fine, good to hear from you again !

    I've read your comments and I'd have to say it was very well written and expressed intelligently.

    Your reasoning with the blood issue is very similar to mine as well as many others here.

    The sanctity of life is the most important thing to consider, to further support that assertion look no further than Jesus Christ and how he set out

    for us to follow regarding the preciousness of life when he went about healing the sick and his greatest commandment of all to love one another.

    This would follow in line with trying to heal the sick and dieing with a medical procedure by using a blood transfusion.

    This weak interpretation of this old Mosaic law is just that weak and illogical in what and why it was issued .

    To make an effort to save a human life is by no means a sin and is commendable in the eyes of god through his son Jesus Christ.

    I never got the impression that the people that were writing out the judicial laws were a knowledgeable educated lot.

    They at one time denounced the use of organ transplants and guess what allot of witnesses died from that policy too

    Only to reverse the policy years latter, not exactly a standing endorsement that they are being guided by god holy spirit is it.

    In any case have to cut it short .............take care

  • freydi
    freydi

    Isn't it absurd to say it's a crime to take whole blood but up to your conscience if you want to take it in parts? Yes indeed, are they abstaining or not? It's like being told you can't eat pizza, but it's a conscience matter if you want to eat the ingredients separately. www.bibletoday.com

  • moshe
    moshe

    JW's have twisted the Jewish law to, " not eat blood" and taken it to an extreme. will a blood transfusion save the life of a starving man ? NO - blood is food only if eaten. When I asked a JW on the hosp-l- committee that question he said, " I nver thought about that!" tha's the problem they don't think about it. Jews see no problem with blood transfusions- JW's should be asking why?

  • marmot
    marmot

    The only thing you need to knock down the blood policy is Matthew chapter 12.

    I don't even believe in the divine inspiration of the Bible anymore, but when I read that chapter it is downright impossible to argue in favor of refusing blood at the risk of dying, ESPECIALLY when children are involved.

    That would have been tantamount to Jesus telling his disciples that if a lamb fell into a pit on the sabbath you had to let the lamb die because the sabbath is sacred. In fact the sabbath was a helluva lot more sacred than the dietary restrictions on blood, you'd be stoned to death for violating the sabbath but merely considered unclean and "cut off" from the camp for a while if you ate unbled meat.

    As the chapter shows, that is the exact opposite of what Jesus was trying to convey.

    Good luck on your journey, but be warned that now you've fallen down the rabbit-hole there's no telling how far you'll go. Another topic of research you might enjoy is the global flood and the age of mankind and, when you're ready for it, evolution.

  • hotchocolate
    hotchocolate

    Marmot, aka Mr Popcorn..

    Hey thanks for that.. I just read through Matt 12.. I had never read that passage with the blood issue in mind, but I have to say I totally agree with you...

    As far as evolution goes... yes, I'm interested in checking that out for sure, but having never believed or listened to a word of it, I'm afraid I don't even know where to begin. Any good sites you can point me to?

    xx

  • troubled mind
  • troubled mind
    troubled mind

    HotChocolate , Welcome

    Your reasoning is right on the money . You are at the same place I found myself a few yrs. ago . The blood issue is what opened my eyes to the fact my life long religion was not the "truth" but just another organization based on manmade ideas .

    I was raised a witness and learned early on how to defend our belief on no transfusions . I am RH-neg and when our first child was expected I had to decide about the vaccine too . After much reading and study I could not in good conscience take a vaccine that contained a fraction of blood because I really thought no blood meant no blood . So instead I put my future two childrens lives in jeapordy ! Thank goodness all three of my children were born healthy .

    It wasn't until about four years ago that I really understood the bible passages about blood .....repect for life is the key point NOT that blood in itself is sacred ..... life is sacred !

    After I had already made my mind up about that issue I became so angry that because of Watchtower dogma I had put my own childrens lives at risk .

    On this site I found another member had written his research on blood done in a very concise manner you may like to read it His user name is ...SKYKING . His research is posted somewhere on here , I am not real computer savy ,but am sure someone else will help find it .

    I hope the best for you in finding answers ....it is a bumpy ride , and can take an emotional toll . Hang in there though because it is so worth it to be free to use the brain God gave you .

  • TooBad TooSad
    TooBad TooSad

    HC,

    It is so refreshing to hear a JW using the brain that God gave us. Your reasoning

    is good. Reasoning and thinking is something that the WTBTS does not want us doing.

    Concerning the usage of blood I like the illustration using peach pie.

    If blood is like peach pie you can not eat peach pie however you can eat the flour, sugar,

    water, vanilla, butter and peaches. Just don't it in pie form.

    Keep thinking.

    TBTS

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