JW IQ's. Below average? (Includes SM anecdote.)

by Open mind 60 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • snowbird
    snowbird

    I think over time you get "dumbed down". The WT magazine, the books, the insanely simple questions from the KM. I mean, when you first start with them, you think you must be pretty smart learning all these new things about the Bible, and after a little while you almost think you are superior to other people around you because of the Bible knowledge. I know when I first started with them, I wanted to get out in the public and pick a fight with someone in Christendom, (to prove how smart I am).

    Exactly how it was for me. I used to challenge pastors and other religious notables just to show off my newfound "knowledge." That quickly grew old as I found out how shallow that so-called knowledge really was.

    Welcome to the board.

    Sylvia

  • hillbilly
    hillbilly

    I got may ass handed to me at a few doors too... Mostly by people who has actually read enough stuff to get me off the canned script and away from "what I knew". Sort of a wake up call... got me looking and reading...thats a bad thing for a JW boy to do.

    ~Hill

  • wifekeepsmeinit
    wifekeepsmeinit

    Thanks for the warm welcome Snowbird.

    got may ass handed to me at a few doors too... Mostly by people who has actually read enough stuff to get me off the canned script and away from "what I knew". Sort of a wake up call... got me looking and reading...thats a bad thing for a JW boy to do.

    Yeah your right, theres been a few times where I was out gunned by some extremely smart Christians, who were also excellent communicators. I remember After a bout with one, I was completely confused, and "naturally" I went to the WT CD or an Elder for clarification, and that of course gave me renewed vigor that I was right and "they" were wrong. But as of lately I have been going to other sources for my "information" or "food". I've recently ordered a couple of books by Raymond Franz, and now lately ive been feeling a little paranoid about if a Brother or Sister will see my order at the post office.

    Nice huh.

  • GoddessRachel
    GoddessRachel

    Haven't read the rest of the thread comments yet, but my initial nagging question back to you, Open Mind, is how do you know that everyone else in that room isn't screaming inside their head "OH MY GOD, ARE YOU KIDDING ME!!??"

    I mean, many JW's go through the motions, give them (the powers that be, i.e. the elders or whomever) what they want, just get it over with, knowing they will get targeted less if they just do what they are told and mind their own business (don't they even have a scripture to back up that 'mind your own business' bit?) and just get through this terrible old system full of persecution until Jehovah murders everyone who is evil and abysses Satan or whatever the hell the plan is...

  • hillary_step
    hillary_step

    Open Mind,

    I have not found the JW's to be below average in itelligence, in fact quite the opposite.

    What I have found is that we all went through a process which gradually stripped us of any critical thinking skills if we were 'converted' to the faith, and allowed few critical skills to develop if we were raised as Jehovah's Witnesses.

    There are for example, some very intelligent people posting to this Board, and yet they too believed the rubbish fed to them by the WTS. I presume that you were also one like the rest of us.

    One good purpose this Board serves is to help people aquire such critical thinking skills. This is often an uncomfortable process as can be seen by those who do develop such gifts and grow out of their protective religious cocoons. It is often not a pretty sight, but then growing up never is!

    HS

  • GoddessRachel
    GoddessRachel

    Why can't I post on this thread anymore? I still have more to say.

  • GoddessRachel
    GoddessRachel

    Edited to add: YAY! It worked!

    Awakened said:

    JWs are not stupid on average, I think. You can be really intelligent and think a lot, but when you're limited to think only within a certain narrow field of what you've been told, you won't be able to use your intelligence to view things objectively. You may hear things that go against what you've been taught, but you feel you have the backing of all the various things you've been taught before, so you opt to believe that whatever doesn't agree with what you believe, must be false. This at least can be true for those who were born in.

    This really got me thinking about the filters JW's use. I read in a book recently that we all see the world through our filters, our preconceived ideas about ourselves (example: I believe I'm stupid so that is why I don't have friends, when the truth could really be that I don't have friends because I don't reach out to meet people, or don't respond to invitations to do things).

    This could certainly apply to JW's as well. They are taught the "truth" and it is WONDERFUL! And then they are conditioned to follow the "FDS" and do what they are told to be able to enjoy the prize of paradise forever! And then when they learn things that contradict their truth, they first apply their filter and then reason out why it is really this or that, instead of what might be obvious to someone who is able to be objective.

  • GoddessRachel
    GoddessRachel

    OK I'll try again.

    Dawg said:

    Think of this Abandoned.... they go out in service, to meetings, shun kids, you know the drilll... and they're lying to themselves? THey are living a lie?

    Some must simply be too damn dumb to see reality... it must be true of some of them

    On the surface, the "truth" seems perfect. It's not stupid to want to believe in good things for yourself and your loved ones! It's natural!

    I think people, like my family, hold on to the "truth" because they just want it to be true so badly, they NEED it to be true, and so they see the world through filters created by the WTS. They see something or hear something, and instead of being objective about what it is they hear or see, they first apply their "knowledge" to what was really seen or heard. Like the poster who wrote about a JW insisting Judas did NOT partake before leaving the supper the night of Jesus' death, the JW insists this, not because he is stupid, but because the "Faithful and Discreet Slave" who would never steer him wrong, told him this is true, so therefore he knows it is true, and thus must back up that "truth" with the scripture he sees, instead of the way it should be which is to allow the scripture to tell him what the event really was and then base his truth off that.

    Why did we wake up from it, Dawg? I have one theory based on my own experience: I got burned. Repeatedly. I was not a privileged elder's child immune to disfellowshipping consequences. I did the best I could and it was not good enough. And when I needed the congregation the most they turned their backs on me (I was not disfellowshipped when this happened; I was in "good standing"). I was also lucky to have a friend who left before me (though I didn't know at the time that he didn't attend meetings) who saw the signs and reached out to me with little snippets of real truth. Slowly I started to grasp reality.

  • wifekeepsmeinit
    wifekeepsmeinit

    Yeah, I agree somewhat with Hillary Step,

    What I have found is that we all went through a process which gradually stripped us of any critical thinking skills if we were 'converted' to the faith, and allowed few critical skills to develop if we were raised as Jehovah's Witnesses.

    Both my wife and I are University Educated and did quite well through University. But I think its those "critical thinking skills" that have been stripped are ones that have any type of Criticsm of the Watchtower Organization. We are told consistently to trust the Watchtower, resist independant thinking and that the Governing Body is Jehovahs channel of communication. We start to think about how miniscule we are in relation to the Governing Body in knowledge and "how could I even doubt them" is the thoughts which race through our minds. So when a good friend of ours is DF'd for having doubts about what is said in the WT magazine we "Learn" to not question anything. Of course, I don't have to explain the severity of treatment one has to comply with when a member is DF'd, but we will all think about what that former member must be going through or feeling in his or her mind. And we don't want to feel the same thing.

    One thing I have learned about being in Sales and this applys to what the Jehovahs Witnesses are doing: The majority of people will do far more to avoid losing what they already have, then they will to get something they don’t have. So in other words the fear of loss is a much greater motivator then the possibility of gain. People make decisions based on emotions, then they rationalize those decisions afterwards.

    When people are in a group, they are like sheep waiting for a Sheppard to direct them. They will comply with whatever the leader is proposing because there is a feeling of safety within that group. All humans want and need to feel wanted. The people we have Bible Studies with, they will perceive you as someone who truly cares for them if we make them feel wanted. People don’t care how much you know, until they know how much you care. And what do all active Jehovahs Witnesses do (i'm one of them) when a new person comes into the Kingdom Hall for the first time. We shower them with so much love and attention that they will have a desire to come back. When they finally get baptized, What do we do? - Nothing. We invite them over once and a while for a token dinner. We forget to show them all that Love and Attention that they once had, and we learn that it is so much better to give then to receive.

    I guess I'll conclude with a statement that I learned in University, I forget who said it, but here it is:

    "The law of consistency keeps us from being intelligent, if we are wrong we should admit to it, but we don’t. Once somebody passes up an opportunity in the present they will most likely pass up that opportunity in the future as well."

    So I guess now that I have my thoughts on this post, I do fully agree with Hillary Step, just needed to add a little bit.

  • Open mind
    Open mind

    I've been mostly gone the last few days.

    Thanks to everyone for some excellent food for thought on a thread that started out fairly high on the FLUFF-ometer.

    Open Mind

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