No such thing as Ghosts...

by Abaddon 17 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Abaddon

  "I think that those who believe in science should just accept, that MAYBE, just maybe when they die they will find themselves on the "other side" looking at God, for no scientific, explainable reason in particular."

  That is one possibility I accept, but maybe not the way you think.

  If god does exist, or god's exist, and our conduct now affects our treatment then, they are a bunch of assholes. It is unfair to go to the efort of making it IMPOSSIBLE to prove you exist, and then to punish people for not believing in you, when if you'd let the obvious be, er, obvious, rather than coming over all ineffable EVERYONE would believe in you because of the simple fact it was a, er, fact.

  Such a scenario would work out like this;

  God/s; "Well, you have displeased me."

  Abaddon; "You ass... *zap*

  God/s; Next!

  I don't seriously think this will happen though, as it is illogical. If god exists and cares, it wouldn't be a question of faith whether god existed. It's all along the lines of 'the dinosaur bones were put there to fool scientists' otherwise.

  "Talking of ignorance, whos REXB13?"

  You'd have to have read more of his posts to realise how funny that sentence is. Fundy, file under 'rabid', will chapter and verse but knows shit about science. Sure he's a nice man, but he gets on my tits. In a way, talking of Rex IS talking of ignorance.

  Keep on rocking in the free world...
• 

  cynicus

  But Mormons, well, Elohi, or whatever, is on his planet with lots of wives, making spirit babies that come to Earth, and if you're a good moron (whoops... my spelling... ) you'll get your own planet and harem. I really don't think I have to GIVE my opinion of how STUPID that is.

  I can't suppress an ear-to-ear smile when I am sometimes reminded to the fact that their most prominent archangel is called MORONI. I kid you not!

  --- wie lacht niet die de mens beziet
• 

  unclebruce

  Interesting topic Abaddon,

  This thread's an enjoyable read. My rebuff to a link made between a new scientific insight explaining some of the phenonema accociated with some ghost reports and deridiing ghosts as no more than previously unexplained electrical activity (both internal and outside ones cranium) is simply .. phht.

  but was ignored by-and-large by the spook community as it's less rimantic than dead grandpa's.

  I think you'll find it was only ignored in the sense of being the be all and end all of knowledge on the subject. I sugest if what you say is true, much of "the spook community" ignored it with a great yawn. Afterall the society for psychic research has been producing similar findings and studies for well over 100 years. (and numbers in its ranks eminent scientists)

  MotherDank: Very interesting observation .. the walls have ears ;) I have witnessed this phenonemon many times from working alone in factories at night to walking about in my own home during the day. Walls obviously absorb sound and i am convinced it is sometimes reflected back in a comprehensable way if the conditions are right. (especially loud sharp calls)

  To me all strange phenonemon have natural scientific explainations. Ghosts do exist. I know they do from personal experience. Next time something appears or disappears before our eyes around here what shall we say? Put that back Jack, you don't exist! (he wouldn't like that) There are many ghosts around here and powerfull ones at that. They put heavy metal objects in my campfire, they levitate things right in front of us, they appear in photos .. they mostly seem to just want us to know they're about.

  Some ghosts repeat a scene like they're locked in some weird time loop. It seems some ghosts are people who've died suddenly but don't realise they're dead. Other ghosts are fully aware of thier surroundings and act just like ordinary people going about thier busiiness. (that's what the ones around here are like. I just wish thier everyday business didn't include practical jokes and borrowing things ;)

  I am convinced that one day within the next few hundred years science will finally catch up with and work out the nuts and bolts of things for a long time only understood and spoken about openly by the alternate experiencers and thinkers. I hope Jan and Alan are listening, they love it when I act the hillbilly know it all.

  It always amuses me that those most often not believing in ghosts have never even seen one and that those most often deriding UFO's wouldn't know the first thing about aircraft design, astronomy or electro magnetism.

  midget men of science have bought much discredit to thier communitee/s by over the centuries, discrediting phenonema as bunk only to later have men and women of high degree enter thier ranks and rattle the chains binding lesser men to thier pomparse ignorance. The modern world owes much to openminded researchers who ignored the shallow critics of low brow acedemia and published and explored the world around them. My hat is off to the warlocks and witches that gave us electric appliances, phsyciatry, physics and numerous other things once considered esoteric and not subjects for the serious mindead university proffesor. Einstein might be spinning in his grave but that doesn't mean a peasant Russian wouldn't tie him to his table of the elements or a Serbian genius wouldn't fit an alternating current generator to him. .. um in all fairness the only scientist i know who said he didn't believe in ghosts was Sir Mark Oliphant but he always was an atheistic, atom bomb making freak. (reconed we could use some of his bombs to reshape the australian desert to prepare it for habitation .. mmm)

  unclebruce who ain't afraid a no ghosts or weather balloons of swamp gas from venus. (but mad scientists give me the heeby geeby's)

  ***editors note: who wrote this rubbish? .. geez give a man a crystal and he kicks yer bucky balls.
• 

  Mindchild

  Abaddon...

  I only believe in the ghosts I can see...

  .. http://hubble.esa.int/hubble/news/image.cfm?oid=28749&ooid=28750

  Liked your posts dude.

  Skipper

  "The religion of the future will be a cosmic religion. The religion which based on experience, which refuses dogmatic. If there's any religion that would cope the scientific needs it will be Buddhism...." Albert Einstein
• 

  Sirona

  LOL Abaddon!
  is your name some version of "a bad un"?

  Here we have something we agree on. If God punished us for not believing then he/she would be an assh*le!

  I believe in reincarnation, and that we are accepted on the other side, and we do review our life but not from a judgemental standpoint, but just to learn.

  Unclebruce: bravo!

  Sirona
• 

  Abaddon

  Of course, if god, or a ghost appeared to me, I would believe.

  What I would believe would vary; if there were a scientific explaination I was happy with, then I would believe that, not in the traditional idea of god's or ghosties that I had engaged with due to a disconnected experience.

  If it was like in 'God, the Devil and Bob', then I'd believe in god!

  Are those of you who are 'pro-ghosties' (I'm ambivalent/bored/mildly interested) afraid of dying or unafraid of dying?

  I see it as a disappointing eventuality, the ultimate bedtime... 'Oh, go on, five minutes more', that sort of thing. No point of being scared of death. It would be like being scared of the word 'and'. Pointless.

  Sirona; A bad'un, yup, as well as the mystical bollocks from the Bible and a character from a book... I LOVE the idea of reincarnation, but where's the proof??

  unclebruce; I agree, as Sirona touched on earlier, that paranormal is often just normal we don't have an equation for YET. Maglev, internet, lasers would all be very fucking paranormal to a 14th C yokel.

  Mindchild; Hubble bubble; now I have a name for my bong...

  8-)-~

  I don't think Buddhism is especially good for Science, not if you look at it carefully. It's still a load of unsubstansiated whistful bollocks, based upon an entirely unappatising premise (anihilation of self, although that's a pipe-dream in the practical life of a Buddhist) and an originating mythos of the silliest nature.

  If religion is the exercise of faith, then there is no good religion for Scientists, as science is the demonstration of proofs and speculation on theories that might allow other proofs to be demonstrated.

  Of course, Scientists can be religious, but I think their Scientific mind and their faith are kept in different boxes.

  I suppose a Unitarian Universalist or Humanitarian are pretty non-contradictory beliefs for Scientists, as well as philosophical non-literal practice of older faithways.

  Example; I'm a Christian, philosophically, but I don't believe in God or Christ as such.

  Keep on rocking in the free world...
• 

  mommy

  Are those of you who are 'pro-ghosties' (I'm ambivalent/bored/mildly interested) afraid of dying or unafraid of dying?

  I am afraid of my loved ones dieing, purely selfish reasons though. I would miss them terribly I am not afraid of death though. I am actually looking forward to it.

  I usually keep my mouth shut about such things that I cannot prove to others. Why should I share my personal experiences with people who have no reason or willingness to believe it anyway? But, I have experienced several encounters with "ghosts." I am a firm believer that "something" exists, that tries to communicate with us. What or who it is, I have not really worried to much about figuring out. I just know these experiences are real to me, I am no better or worse for them happening.

  I am interested in your explanation on this though. I am not sure sound waves, could actually carry on a conversation or move about the room though. It seems plausible for perhaps a still image, or the goosebumps that usually are heard to appear with this.

  I also believe that anyone who reads anything and everything on this subject is more than likely to taint their mind to "imagine" such experiences. Sometimes, it is better not to know the why or what for...it is just enough to know that it happened. I guess that is where I am, I try to stay away from any kind of written word about this, or other phenomenon.
  wendy
  Edited because the deeminz took over my keyboard
  BTW forgot to mention Hubble Bubble..lol very funny
  Blind faith can justify anything.~Richard Dawkins
• 

  Sirona

  Abaddon,

  Im not afraid of death at all.

  Reincarnation proof? Well it has to be peoples personal experience again. I've read books which explain the theory and it makes sense to me. Some of them showed how there are little children who for no apparent reason can speak another language. A friend of mine is a teacher and he told me about a child in his school who was being investigated because he spoke fluent japanese, despite having no japanese relatives or neighbours (not exposed to the language in any way). Then there are those who remember their previous life. One little girl told her parents of how she died and her name in her previous life. They investigated, and the birthmarks on her body matched the injuries sustained by this mans accidental death. I suppose there is no actual scientifically, laboratory tested proof. (as usual! LOL).

  Sirona