by mindfield 28 Replies latest jw friends
fedup
As you are reading the bible, you could visit a few churches, or even places like a buddhist or unitarian church. Don't worry, they don't have anymore demons than the kingdom hall does. Their ministers also like to answer questions. Unitarian people are the best educated religion. You can have a good time checking things out.
. http://quotes.jehovahswitnesses.com/default.htm
this may give you some ammo.
Good luck!
Keep questioning their sacred cows, you're on the right track!
Fed up,
It is very common to second guess and question yourself when you are coming to grips with these things. There is nothing wrong in taking the time to verify things and make absolutely sure of everything.
You need to keep in mind when talking with elders is that they will allow you to only come to one conclusion - the Society's conclusion. And since they are elders, there can be no objectivity, no considering another viewpoint, because they can only support the Society's conclusions.
In everything, there are many sides to every issue and elders will only present the sides that support their conclusions. Often times, elders will not even have heard of the things you will learn, and so will dismiss them as "apostate lies".
As far as "apostate lies" go, you will find these "lies" to be mostly WT quotes in full context from their own publications. Go to the KH library and look them up and see them for yourself. Think, and ask yourself, what does it mean that "God' channel" wrote and forced people to believe this stuff?
Elders will try to dismiss past beliefs and articles that contain non-sense and hurtful policies, some of which caused great hardship and even death. Ask yourself, do these explanations from elders regarding the past make sense? What has the Society done to make ammends to these people whose lives were ruined by what they wrote? Have they openly acknowleged these things and apologized?
Read "Crisis of Conscience" and "Gentile Times Reconsidered". These books explain in a nice way of serious issues that need to be considered and explain things that even your elders have no clue about.
Spend lots of time in making sure. Look at original copies, scans of documents and articles. Ask questions and use your own mind and common sense to see if things make sense or not. Don't just accept anything because someone says its right.
In the meantime, it is usually best to do this research quietly so that it can be undertaken with minimal distraction. At 17 years old, it important that you make wise decisions over the next few years and coming to some sort of conclusion on this matter sooner than later will be better for you in the long run.
Best wishes,
Path
Fed up:
First: elders (as well as long time pioneers and publishers) are very good at presenting arguments for their ‘faith’. That does not make them right or wrong, just good at arguing. However, if you find that your convictions are easily decimated by a witness then perhaps you need to make certain of them. I went through what you’re experiencing as well as a number of posters here. This is not unusual. Take your time. Understand at the outset, if you are able, that there is a very strong probability that you will never, ever, convince an elder or even one of the rank and file of what you have found out about the WTBS. Concern yourself with proving to you, and only you IF Jehovah’s Witnesses are wrong. Later, much later you MAY have an opportunity to discuss this with a witness without that person shutting down on you in the process. The elder evidently did not consider you a threat or else he would have shut down, run back to the body and you would be facing a judicial committee. He evidently considers you harmless and that is probably a good thing at this stage of your process of withdrawal. Capitalize on this and use it to further your research.
Suggestion: Try to keep an open mind in your research. Ask yourself if perhaps you are not reading something into the info that isn’t there. Whatever you do, don’t let yourself be dragged into another situation where others are telling you what to make of what you see. Think for yourself.
I have a thread here titled: Quips and Quotes in which I quote from a recent article in the Watchtower which deals with one’s right to believe what they want to. It’s very difficult, once you’re out, to read that article and wonder why those still in cannot see the total hypocrisy of what is being said. But the article makes it easy to see how difficult it is to present the truth to the witnesses because of their indoctrination.
A great many former JW’s give up on God and the Bible. Their total disillusionment with the organization that represented itself as God’s channel of communication to man has led them to forsake God as well. That part saddens me. I read the Bible and I still believe in God and I pray every day. You will find that by making an earnest attempt of emptying your mind of the indoctrination you received you will be amazed at what you will find in the Scriptures.
Dear fed up,
As well as looking at the Bible, I would reccommend some other reading too.
You've been bought up in a mind set where people genuinely believe that:
1/ God created everything
2/ That he destroyed the world with a flood
3/ That he scattered mankind when they spoke one language by confusing languages
4/ God got the Israelites out of Egypt through bio-chemical divine warfare, and then sponsored the ethnic cleansing of Palenstine
5/ That god sent his son to save us, who died and was ressurected
6/ Armagedon will start anyday soon, when the wicked will be destroyed and a millenial reign will start when all the dead will be bought back to life and people will live forever.
To say that this retards the scientific understanding of someone is an understatement.
It's a bigger question than 'is this the right religion?', it's more along the lines of 'is religion right?' If there is no god, then religion is just man-made wishful-thinking.
Obviously, your truth might be found in religion. You might decide its impossible to know the answer to the question of whether god exists.
After I got out and went to Uni, and learnt about Science, I found I could not maintain a belief in god. Seemingly convincing arguements the Society and other theists use to support the existence of god, for me, fail under scientific analysis.
As I say, what YOU believe is imprtant, but don't make assumptions is all I am saying.
Good luck whatever you do though.
Keep on rocking in the free world...
Dear Fed Up,
Briefly what made me leave JWs, the Bible, and other religions is the existence of dinasours.
Dinasours were often 'meat eaters,' i.e., predators.
The Bible says at Gen. 1:30 that all creation ate green grass. Then Adam sinned and nature became violent.
Dinasours existed long (millions of years) before humans and were not all vegetation-eaters.
So, Adam's sin had nothing to do with it. Bible writers knew nothing about dinasours.
This is a fatal flaw in the Bible.
So, in my opinion, reading the Bible with a view to insight is fruitless.
I would recommend that you read books by scientists on the validity of the ages and behaviors of dinasours, etc.
The first non-JW book I read when leaving was "The Blind Watchmaker" by Richard Dawkins. Also highly recommend "Guns, Germs, & Steel" and "The Third Chimpanzee" both by Jared Diamond. Guns Germs&Steel is a Pulitzer-Prize winner.
Btw, there are links at the bottom of the page for some excellent sites dealing with the WTS.
I didn't go to the elders about my doubts raised by the "killing fields of nature," because they don't know any more than what the WT says. Without being immodest, I studied a lot more than they did (I read the Bible straight thru 5 times in the last 6 years--even looked up many dates writing them in the margins of Bible, never missed one article in the WT and Awake, read every book as soon as I got it, etc.)
I did write the WTS once, but the answer was not a good answer.
"I'd rather have questions I can't answer than answers I can't question (or questions I can't ask!)"
All the best,
Pat
fed up,
Here's the link: http://www.geocities.com/osarsif/index2.htm
Dear Fedup,
You might also enjoy reading Carl Sagen's "Demon Haunted World" -- no you won't get demonized -- nor is it about witches and stuff -- just thought provoking reading -- especially the chapter on -- There is a Dragon in my Garage...
Reading the Bible without additional "explaining" literature is also a good idea. Read other Holy Books as well. See how they relate to what you read in the Bible.
Because of our background -- we will always know the Bible best -- so if it works to leave it as the stick by which to measure..so be it.
My husband will quote verses from Quran often -- usually I give him the Biblical equivalant -- it's rather interesting at times.
I discuss and enjoy religious theology discussions very much -- not because I have to -- or because I am trying to convert anyone....just for having thought provoking intellectual discussions! This is something I never thought possible. I was a pioneer -- but I always HATED field service. and the thought of needing to preach to every non-witness I ever had an encounter with -- so I wouldn't be bloodguilty...as if I am responsible for other people's relationships with God...imagine I could be so important...ROFLMAO
Any enough from me...Best of luck -- always apply logic to whatever you read and hear.
(((fedup)))
Many have been in your same position. You're not alone! I struggle with the same issues with my JW parents and I'm 30. I want to tell them everything I've learned, but have a hard time "talking" in a way that gets my points across. One of these days...
College is a very liberating experience. It was for me anyway. Yes, I was surprised at how many people had never even heard of JWs! Shocked me really! Everyone knew about the ministry work right? Nuhhuh. The Elders want to pump up your ego about being a JW. That it is a worldwide known thing. College woke me up to the falsehood in that statement. College woke me up to a lot of things. Keep it up. You'll be surprised at how much you'll learn about Truth! (It ain't in the Watchtower!)
Take care hon! Keep an open mind and hear - you'll do great!
Andi
