Any Old TImers remember Awake (early 1960's) saying JW's could vote ?

by ShirleyW 12 Replies latest jw experiences

  • ShirleyW
    ShirleyW

    B-Deserters post reminded me of something that was posted quite some time ago, matter of fact, it could've been posted on Tishies Board, if some of us here remember her website. A poster on her website quoted the exact date of an Awake magazine going back to the early 1960's which clearly stated that JW's could vote if they wanted to, conscious was not mentioned in the article !!

    I went down to my mother's basement, looked up the exact date that was mentioned, and sure enough there it was in plain black and white, JW's had the vote!! No consciousness considered !! At the time I looked this up my mother happened to be having a bible study in her home on the Saturdays's that I was over there, I'll just chalk it up to "maturity" why I didn't come running up the steps and interrupt the brainwashing session with what I had just found in the Brooklyn Boy's old study material.

    Any old timers remember the article I'm referring too ??

  • onacruse
    onacruse

    This was brought up recently on another thread, and I've had a chance to do some research on this.

    I can't find a single WTS reference that specifically prohibits JWs from voting, at least in the sense that they would be disfellowshipped if they did. Of course, there are frequent references to "abstaining from worldly politics...including voting," but not once do they say that a JW would be df'd if they voted.

    In fact, this is rather like trying to df someone for joining the military: the charge of treason would almost certainly be brought against the WTS if they were so overt as to make it a punishable offense.

    The default position is to say, at worst, that, "by doing so and so so and so has demonstrated that they no longer desire to be identified as a Jehovah's Witness, and have thereby disassociated themselves."

  • TheOldHippie
    TheOldHippie

    Trying to make someone abstain from voting - as well as from military service - is a crime in many countries, and so the magazines could not spell it out in clear language, because the literature would then be banned.

  • nomoreguilt
    nomoreguilt

    I can't remember what year it was, but there was infromation which pertained to being able to vote along non-political lines,ie, local tax issues, moneys for roads, schools, just so long as they wern't politically connected. Who cares now,eh? I voted in 04 for the wrong man anyways. It doesn't matter who yoou vote for, the big money people in this country will always control....

  • blondie
    blondie

    If jws live in a country where voting is required by law, jws are allowed to vote, perhaps writing in "Jesus Christ" or "God's Kingdom." In countries without such laws, a jw found voting could be considered to have disassociated themselves.

    *** w64 5/15 p. 308 par. 20 Maintaining Unity in Difficult Times ***

    20

    To mature Christians, the question of what attitude should be taken in the matter of political elections presents no issue. In totalitarian countries oftentimes people are forced by law to go to the election polls and sometimes persons are even picked up at home and brought to the polls. Even in certain democracies the law makes it compulsory for the citizens to go to the election places. In no country do Jehovah’s witnesses take part in politics. They are not of this world. (John 17:14) Therefore they do not take part in voting at elections. They do not compromise their neutral standing in matters of politics, however, if they go to the polls and make the ballot void in some manner, either by crossing it out or by putting down, for example, the words "For God’s Kingdom." That is telling what he is for. By doing this their ballot will become void; it will not count in the election of a man. They have complied with the law and gone to the polls and likely avoided punishment. Remember Jesus’ counsel: "Look! I am sending you forth as sheep amidst wolves; therefore prove yourselves cautious as serpents and yet innocent as doves." (Matt. 10:16) No one should be condemned for acting so. "But why do you judge your brother? Or why do you also look down on your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of God."—Rom. 14:10.

    *** w99 11/1 pp. 28-29 Questions From Readers ***

    How do Jehovah’s Witnesses view voting?There are clear principles set out in the Bible that enable servants of God to take a proper view of this matter. However, there appears to be no principle against the practice of voting itself. For example, there is no reason why a board of directors should not take a vote in order to arrive at decisions affecting their corporation. Congregations of Jehovah’s Witnesses often make decisions about meeting times and the use of congregation funds by voting with a show of hands.

    What, though, of voting in political elections? Of course, in some democratic lands, as many as 50 percent of the population do not turn out to vote on election day. As for Jehovah’s Witnesses, they do not interfere with the right of others to vote; neither do they in any way campaign against political elections. They respect and cooperate with the authorities who are duly elected in such elections. (Romans 13:1-7) As to whether they will personally vote for someone running in an election, each one of Jehovah’s Witnesses makes a decision based on his Bible-trained conscience and an understanding of his responsibility to God and to the State. (Matthew 22:21; 1 Peter 3:16) In making this personal decision, the Witnesses consider a number of factors.

    First, Jesus Christ said of his followers: "They are no part of the world, just as I am no part of the world." (John 17:14) Jehovah’s Witnesses take this principle seriously. Being "no part of the world," they are neutral in the political affairs of the world.—John 18:36.

    Second, the apostle Paul referred to himself as an "ambassador" representing Christ to the people of his day. (Ephesians 6:20; 2 Corinthians 5:20) Jehovah’s Witnesses believe that Christ Jesus is now the enthroned King of God’s heavenly Kingdom, and they, like ambassadors, must announce this to the nations. (Matthew 24:14; Revelation 11:15) Ambassadors are expected to be neutral and not to interfere in the internal affairs of the countries to which they are sent. As representatives of God’s heavenly Kingdom, Jehovah’s Witnesses feel a similar obligation not to interfere in the politics of the countries where they reside.

    A third factor to consider is that those who have a part in voting a person into office may become responsible for what he does. (Compare 1 Timothy 5:22, TheNewEnglishBible.) Christians have to consider carefully whether they want to shoulder that responsibility.

    Fourth, Jehovah’s Witnesses greatly value their Christian unity. (Colossians 3:14) When religions get involved in politics, the result is often division among their members. In imitation of Jesus Christ, Jehovah’s Witnesses avoid becoming involved in politics and thus maintain their Christian unity.—Matthew 12:25; John 6:15; 18:36, 37.

    Fifth and finally, their keeping out of politics gives Jehovah’s Witnesses freeness of speech to approach people of all political persuasions with the important message of the Kingdom.—Hebrews 10:35.

    In view of the Scriptural principles outlined above, in many lands Jehovah’s Witnesses make a personal decision not to vote in political elections, and their freedom to make that decision is supported by the law of the land. What, though, if the law requires citizens to vote? In such a case, each Witness is responsible to make a conscientious, Bible-based decision about how to handle the situation. If someone decides to go to the polling booth, that is his decision. What he does in the polling booth is between him and his Creator.

    The November 15, 1950, issue of TheWatchtower, on pages 445 and 446, said: "Where Caesar makes it compulsory for citizens to vote . . . [Witnesses] can go to the polls and enter the voting booths. It is here that they are called upon to mark the ballot or write in what they stand for. The voters do what they will with their ballots. So here in the presence of God is where his witnesses must act in harmony with his commandments and in accordance with their faith. It is not our responsibility to instruct them what to do with the ballot."

    What if a Christian woman’s unbelieving husband insists that she present herself to vote? Well, she is subject to her husband, just as Christians are subject to the superior authorities. (Ephesians 5:22; 1 Peter 2:13-17) If she obeys her husband and goes to the polling booth, that is her personal decision. No one should criticize her.—Compare Romans 14:4.

    What of a country where voting is not mandated by law but feelings run high against those who do not go to the voting booth—perhaps they are exposed to physical danger? Or what if individuals, while not legally obliged to vote, are severely penalized in some way if they do not go to the polling booth? In these and similar situations, a Christian has to make his own decision. "Each one will carry his own load."—Galatians 6:5.

    There may be people who are stumbled when they observe that during an election in their country, some Witnesses of Jehovah go to the polling booth and others do not. They may say, ‘Jehovah’s Witnesses are not consistent.’ People should recognize, though, that in matters of individual conscience such as this, each Christian has to make his own decision before Jehovah God.—Romans 14:12.

    Whatever personal decisions Jehovah’s Witnesses make in the face of different situations, they take care to preserve their Christian neutrality and freeness of speech. In all things, they rely on Jehovah God to strengthen them, give them wisdom, and help them avoid compromising their faith in any way. Thus they show confidence in the words of the psalmist: "You are my crag and my stronghold; and for the sake of your name you will lead me and conduct me."—Psalm 31:3.

  • shopaholic
    shopaholic

    I had similar questions about voting and someone on this board pointed me to '99 mag as well. Blondie is absolutely right, a JW (in the US for instance) can vote but if its found out there may be consequences. It really depends on your BOE, my friend's dad was disfellowshipped a few years ago for voting. Someone saw him coming out of a building where voting stations had been set-up and the drama began from there. Anyway, he was df'd because voting showed that he did not trust God's Kingdom and believe in Jehovah's promises.

    FYI....I'm voting in the next election!

  • BluesBrother
    BluesBrother

    Shopaholic's story is about right . I would expect that to happen . Technically he would be disassociated , not disfellowshipped . They just recognize that by his action he must no longer want to be a J W . I have always understood that they could not print an outright ban on voting without legal reprisals, so they get around it this way

    Different articles may have said differing things over the years, but the position has never changed

  • sir82
    sir82

    A related question:

    Does anyone recall any oral direction (certainly nothing ever appeared in print) which allowed JWs to vote, but not in elections of persons to political office?

    For example, I seem to dimly recall someone saying, when I was very young, that a JW could in good conscience go to the polls to vote on something like a school bond issue. Such a person is not "voting for human government instead of God's government", but instead merely telling the government how to spend money it already had collected or would collect.

    Maybe it was just a local elder expressing his opinion? Or does anybody else remember hearing something like that?

  • Bonnie_Clyde
    Bonnie_Clyde

    Does anyone recall any oral direction (certainly nothing ever appeared in print) which allowed JWs to vote, but not in elections of persons to political office?

    For example, I seem to dimly recall someone saying, when I was very young, that a JW could in good conscience go to the polls to vote on something like a school bond issue. Such a person is not "voting for human government instead of God's government", but instead merely telling the government how to spend money it already had collected or would collect.

    Maybe it was just a local elder expressing his opinion? Or does anybody else remember hearing something like that?

    Sir82 - I do remember that, and I'm sure it was in print. I just don't have the time to do all the research right now. I also remember the brothers in one of the African countries in the 70's (I think Rawanda) who were severely beaten and women raped for refusing to go to polls--even though our literature, as Blondie pointed out, sometimes said it was OK to go, just void the ballot.

  • Atlantis
    Atlantis

    http://www.jwfiles.com/vote.htm

    Is "Voting" OK Now ?



    This is what previous articles have to say about "Voting".....

    WT 11/15/1977 page 686 Why Persecution of Christians? The Witnesses are neutral as to warfare and strife between the nations, as well as being clean from all political involvement, not even voting, because they fulfill Jesus’ description of them as being “no part of the world.” (John 17:14) For the same reason they do not salute the flag or emblem of any nation. For a Christian witness of Jehovah to give devotion, worship or service to, or to bow to or salute any image or idol is a grave sin in the eyes of God.—1 John 5:21; Acts 15:29; compare Exodus 20:4, 5; Deuteronomy 5:8, 9.

    WT 10/15/1973 page 627 Why People of All Kinds Are Becoming Jehovah's Witnesses “You gave me the right answer to the first question,” said the man, “but you probably won’t answer the next one right. I am looking for a religion which has absolutely nothing to do with politics. Do you have anything to do with politics?” Informed that Jehovah’s witnesses keep separate from all politics, not even voting, the man was indeed surprised. Eventually a Bible study was started with him and his wife. Now both of them are baptized witnesses of Jehovah.

    WT 5/15/1964 page 308 Maintaining Unity in Difficult Times Even in certain democracies the law makes it compulsory for the citizens to go to the election places. In no country do Jehovah’s witnesses take part in politics. They are not of this world. (John 17:14) Therefore they do not take part in voting at elections. They do not compromise their neutral standing in matters of politics, however, if they go to the polls and make the ballot void in some
    manner, either by crossing it out or by putting down, for example, the words “For God’s Kingdom.”
    That is telling what he is for. By doing this their ballot will become void; it will not count in the
    election of a man. They have complied with the law and gone to the polls and likely avoided
    punishment.


    This is what the "Pay Attention to Yourselves and to All the Flock 1981" book says about an individual who would "Vote" and what actions are done with such a one.


    (Watchtower 5/15/1950 that was quoted in the new November 1, 1999)

    WT 11/15/1950 pages 445-446 Subjection to the Higher Powers Likewise where Caesar makes it compulsory for citizens to vote. After they have registered and when election day comes, they can go to the polls and enter the voting booths. It is here that they are called upon to mark the ballot or write in what they stand for. The voters do what they will with their ballots. So here in the presence of God is where his witnesses must act in harmony with his commandments and in accordance with their faith. 23 It is not our responsibility to instruct them what to do with the ballot. They must act in accord with their conscience as enlightened by the study of God’s Word. In lands where voting is not compulsory, the ministers of Jehovah’s Word remember that his people are theocratically organized. According to the divine law under which they are organized the popular vote of the majority does not put servants in office, but all appointments in the theocratic organization are from God and through those whom he puts in authority in his organization. Even in his visible organization the individual members of the congregation do not vote democratically and put qualified men into positions of overseers and ministerial servants by majority vote. No, but the appointments to all official positions of service are made by the spirit of God and through the governing body according to the Scriptural requirements. Even the governing body which make the appointments are under instructions from the “superior authorities”, God and his Christ. To them it is written: “Never lay your hands hastily upon any man; neither be a sharer in the sins of others; preserve yourself pure.” (1 Tim. 3:1-13 and Þ1Ti Ü5:22, NW) So the ministers of Jehovah’s Word do not possess the vote within his organization. As for the governing body, it does not lay its hands hastily upon a consecrated person, lest it should become responsible for his sins in office due to a hasty appointment of an undependable, unqualified person. 24 Since they do not exercise the popular vote to put even consecrated servants into office even within the theocratic organization, they consider it improper to exercise the democratic vote by
    which unconsecrated persons are put into worldly political offices. They do not choose to share in
    the responsibility for the sins of such worldlings in governmental offices. They want to preserve themselves pure from this world. They abide by God’s appointments through his theocratic organization, and they accept his appointment of Jesus Christ to the kingship of the righteous new world.

    N.

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