On October 6th I registered in this forum, and gave a brief description of my personal experience, promising I would expand later. The time has gone by very rapidly, other different priorities have kept me away from this forum, which I will not cover otherwise I would take even more time going down to the core of the subject. My objective, in this forum, is to be of help to others who might be at a loss and who are confronted with the difficult issue of being loyal or leave the Organization. I believe I can offer not only my personal experience, but also the personal knowledge of both the teachings as well as the “theocratic” and administrative dispositions used by the Watchtower (if this is the right English expression used in the Organization). My real mother tongue is not English, although I believe I am quite fluent and at ease in this language. Moreover, I live in a different part of the World; therefore it might be that some of my expressions may not be the ones you are acquainted with, for which I do apologize. If this happens, please do not hesitate correcting me, it will be beneficial to both the audience, who will finally understand what I am talking about, and myself, so that I can try to avoid repeating my errors in the future. After my long experience as Jehovah Witness, one thing I now hate is proselytizing. I wonder how people have accepted me for so long, when this was my primary way of approaching others. Having said so let me try to expand on my personal experience. …………………. To keep your expectations at the right level, let me tell you that I will not reveal my true identity, as I need to remain “anonymous” to protect those I love from the firing back of the Organization. Nick is not my real name, nor my surname. It simply points to Nicodemus, who preferred to stay in the shade, which is what I will be doing until the time matures and that I will feel free to come out in the light. What I believe is more important to all of you is not my real identity which I hope one day to reveal, but the reasons why after over 50 years as a JW I finally understood the need to separate from the Organization. I am, moreover, convinced that many of the reasons that make this movement dangerous, reasons for which I will in the future expose my viewpoints, are also valid for other religious movements. I am not against religion per se. I do respect those who feel happy in any religion, if this is what their spiritual need requires, as long as the belief of this movement does not threaten the life and the security of others, as I do respect those who have decided to be part of no religion at all. It is not my mission here to dissuade those who are currently Jehovah Witnesses to continue to be part of the movement. As it is not my mission to proselytize for any particular religion or to provide arguments for others to defend their own beliefs. My current only position is to be tolerant towards everyone, if at all possible. However, as I had to suffer damages while I was a Witness and, in particular, in the process which finally took me out of the movement, I have decided to share my motivations with those who are still in the Organization but who start to experience doubts of different nature and who may be reading in this forum. I was educated since the age of 2 as a Jehovah Witness by my believing parents. I have been baptized now for over 50 years and since some four years I have “abandoned” the Organization, after four more years of “agony”. Now I am a simple “inactive” and one of the many nominal non-goers witnesses, but for many years I have been a “Leader” in the area, fulfilling several charges as elder since this “disposition” was introduced back in 1972. While during my whole life I never had any sort of problem with anyone within the Organization, all of a sudden, when I got 50 or so, I found myself in a very sad situation which caused me lots of troubles which I am not my intention to describe in any detail. It has to be noted that the problems were caused by my co-elders with whom I had been serving for years. I eventually found out that the originator of the trouble was our circuit overseer, who was in fact one of my best friends whom I had known for over 20 years. For two years while I was trying to cope with the problem, the level of discussions in the body of elders deteriorated to the point that the Bethel sent over two other elders to mitigate the situation. In fact, the two new elders, I found out later, were nothing else but “buddies of the circuit overseer” who received instructions from the latter to collect as much evidence as possible against me. These ended up writing a pages long report against me with over 15 slanders. At that point in time I resigned as elder and tried to get “justice” from the Bethel, who appointed a “service committee”. I trusted the system, and provided the required two witnesses who testified in my favor. I had to wait 12 months to get a final response, and during this period I exchanged several letters with the Bethel, which add up to over 130 pages. In spite of the fact that my arguments were accepted, and I was cleared-up of any accusations, according to the “service committee”, the rest of the elders and the two circuit overseers involved, remained in their positions, with no harm. I didn’t accept the situation, as none of them was ready to apologize for their slanders nor had the Bethel arranged any disciplinary actions against them. While for 30 years or so, I religiously applied the “rules” of the Organization disfellowshipping unrepentant young brothers because of smoking, now that those who had to be of example, the elders and the circuit overseers, practiced evil deeds such as slandering without repenting (no excuses were ever offered), the Bethel preferred to hide the whole thing. No, I didn’t abandon the Organization because of my pride, nor because I didn’t accept that we are all imperfect human beings, but this accident was the one who enabled me to ask myself the very sensitive question: “Who are they?”, “Who is my so called ‘Mother’?”. “Why, while Paul said that we should not go to secular courts because we had mature brothers in the congregation, the entity who had to grant justice, but who in fact was covering-up wrong-doers simply because they were their ‘representatives’?” To answer all these questions, I started questioning the position of authority which the Organization has granted to the “FDS” and its ‘representing’ body, the Governing Body. - Did the Bible really support such an interpretation of Mathews 24:45? - If so, how could its interpretation factually be proved in today’s activities of the Organization? At first, I didn’t dismiss the FDS. At first I simply applied the term “bad slave” and “good slave” both as members of the same organization. This would have explained why, in some cases one can see the bad works of the FDS or its representatives, and in other cases se good works. Then, I started to investigate further my own beliefs. Even taking the interpretation the Organization offered as truth, was it factually the case? I didn’t then go into an independent interpretation of the scripture, but simply analyzed what I already knew about the facts related to the anointed ones, the FDS and the GB. Having been presiding overseer for years, I pretty well knew how the question of reporting the number the emblems partakers to the Bethel. The Society uses a little postcard form to report annually, after the memorial meeting, two single numbers: a. the total number of attendees and b. the number of those who were counted as having had taken the emblems (bread and wine), thus declaring of being part of the anointed ones, the class of the Faithful and Discrete Slave, the 144’000. No name, address, phone number of any of that was ever provided to the Bethel on the report, as there is no space available on the card to insert it. Nor the Bethel has any particular form, nor does the circuit overseer have a special caption in his visit report to the Society to indicate who these anointed ones are. Apart from their number, in the swinging range of 8000 units since about 20 years, the Society doesn’t know a thing, except, maybe, but not because there is any defined procedure, those of them who live in the Brooklyn Head Office. How on earth, a group of about 8000 people is supposed to “provide (spiritual) food” to the house of God and “manage” the Lord possessions on Earth, providing directions to local Bethels worldwide and finally individual elders if no one of them know each other, and the Society itself doesn’t even know how they are called? If all of this smoky dream was true, individual anointed brothers would be called in to meet with their peers, discuss Bible interpretations, write papers on their conclusions, provide guidance worldwide. They would have an agenda with predefined meeting sessions in one or several places on earth. If one of them would find that some of the staff being published didn’t sound ‘appropriate’ ‘reasonable’ and so on, he would be entitled to go back and report it to the Society. But NONE OF THIS EXISTS. I know personally and have known in the past more than one brother who is or was (having passed away by now) an anointed one, and none has even confirmed any of these normal processes. If you look at how the Congregations is organized world wide, nothing is left to the imagination of the individual elders. Everything is precisely defined, documented in pre-defined form, and books are printed to educate the elders on how to follow the procedures. Elders schools are held, circuit overseers come and control that the “procedures” are followed. Individual bothers know pretty well what all the different activities and meetings defined by the Organization are, and organize their whole life around them. How come that the core group of this Organization, who is supposed to be the only Channel between God and we poor stupid human beings is completely disorganized, and misses any instructions describing them how to accomplish their role here on earth. They don’t know each other, they don’t know what they should do to “direct” this Organization, if they have an inspiration (Holy Spirit) there is no procedure on how to process this information, as there is no structure no procedure on how to do all that. Given this scenario, how on earth can we believe that this Organization is directed by this Core Group? Just lots of crap!! Of course, one could say, but they are represented by a Governing Body, who has all the staff I am talking about. True, but given the evidence, I consider the GB as an entity who has usurped a role which was, according to their own interpretation, granted by Jesus to the FDS. No one of this last entity has ever elected, appointed any member of the GB. There is no procedure in place which enables the FDS to appoint any member as their representative on the Board of the GB. These guys appoint themselves, without any minimum consideration for those whom they pretend they represent. Without reporting, I am not saying regularly, but not even one single time a year to the ones they represent, the FDS, on their activities, successes, failures, and plans for the next reporting period. Have you ever seen any organization who has an Executive Committee who NEVER reports on anything to the ones they represent, the real stakeholders? All of this, my dear friends, was enough for me to reject both these entities as legitimate authorities approved by God to guide his people on earth. How did I finally leave the boat, how my whole family ended up taking the same decision, maybe I should leave it for a next post, as both you and I are probably quite tired at this point in time to concentrate in this subject. Nick!
Finally I get to introduce myself .
by Nick! 22 Replies latest jw experiences
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blueviceroy
Wow that is an incredibly difficult to read post .
Nice to see another human looking for something real.
Glad your here .
(Use the enter key to make paragraphs LOL!)
Come back again WELCOME TO THE FORUMhttp://deoxy.org/rst.htm
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Nick!
Sorry guys, unfortunately the "mess" you see there, is because I simply copy pasted a a properly formatted document.
Anyone can help? Can the post be DELETED and REPLACED, using a better copy/paste sistem.
I already had this problem .... the first time one month ago, but probably forgot what I did to post it properly.
Sorrry
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purplesofa
Nick!
Welcome to the Board, Look Forward to you next post!!!! Loved this one.
purps
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Nick!
Finally I get to introduce myself …. On October 6th I registered in this forum, and gave a brief description of my personal experience, promising I would expand later. The time has gone by very rapidly, other different priorities have kept me away from this forum, which I will not cover otherwise I would take even more time going down to the core of the subject. My objective, in this forum, is to be of help to others who might be at a loss and who are confronted with the difficult issue of being loyal or leave the Organization. I believe I can offer not only my personal experience, but also the personal knowledge of both the teachings as well as the “theocratic” and administrative dispositions used by the Watchtower (if this is the right English expression used in the Organization). My real mother tongue is not English, although I believe I am quite fluent and at ease in this language. Moreover, I live in a different part of the World; therefore it might be that some of my expressions may not be the ones you are acquainted with, for which I do apologize. If this happens, please do not hesitate correcting me, it will be beneficial to both the audience, who will finally understand what I am talking about, and myself, so that I can try to avoid repeating my errors in the future. After my long experience as Jehovah Witness, one thing I now hate is proselytizing. I wonder how people have accepted me for so long, when this was my primary way of approaching others. Having said so let me try to expand on my personal experience. …………………. To keep your expectations at the right level, let me tell you that I will not reveal my true identity, as I need to remain “anonymous” to protect those I love from the firing back of the Organization. Nick is not my real name, nor my surname. It simply points to Nicodemus, who preferred to stay in the shade, which is what I will be doing until the time matures and that I will feel free to come out in the light. What I believe is more important to all of you is not my real identity which I hope one day to reveal, but the reasons why after over 50 years as a JW I finally understood the need to separate from the Organization. I am, moreover, convinced that many of the reasons that make this movement dangerous, reasons for which I will in the future expose my viewpoints, are also valid for other religious movements. I am not against religion per se. I do respect those who feel happy in any religion, if this is what their spiritual need requires, as long as the belief of this movement does not threaten the life and the security of others, as I do respect those who have decided to be part of no religion at all. It is not my mission here to dissuade those who are currently Jehovah Witnesses to continue to be part of the movement. As it is not my mission to proselytize for any particular religion or to provide arguments for others to defend their own beliefs. My current only position is to be tolerant towards everyone, if at all possible. However, as I had to suffer damages while I was a Witness and, in particular, in the process which finally took me out of the movement, I have decided to share my motivations with those who are still in the Organization but who start to experience doubts of different nature and who may be reading in this forum. I was educated since the age of 2 as a Jehovah Witness by my believing parents. I have been baptized now for over 50 years and since some four years I have “abandoned” the Organization, after four more years of “agony”. Now I am a simple “inactive” and one of the many nominal non-goers witnesses, but for many years I have been a “Leader” in the area, fulfilling several charges as elder since this “disposition” was introduced back in 1972. While during my whole life I never had any sort of problem with anyone within the Organization, all of a sudden, when I got 50 or so, I found myself in a very sad situation which caused me lots of troubles which I am not my intention to describe in any detail. It has to be noted that the problems were caused by my co-elders with whom I had been serving for years. I eventually found out that the originator of the trouble was our circuit overseer, who was in fact one of my best friends whom I had known for over 20 years. For two years while I was trying to cope with the problem, the level of discussions in the body of elders deteriorated to the point that the Bethel sent over two other elders to mitigate the situation. In fact, the two new elders, I found out later, were nothing else but “buddies of the circuit overseer” who received instructions from the latter to collect as much evidence as possible against me. These ended up writing a pages long report against me with over 15 slanders. At that point in time I resigned as elder and tried to get “justice” from the Bethel, who appointed a “service committee”. I trusted the system, and provided the required two witnesses who testified in my favor. I had to wait 12 months to get a final response, and during this period I exchanged several letters with the Bethel, which add up to over 130 pages. In spite of the fact that my arguments were accepted, and I was cleared-up of any accusations, according to the “service committee”, the rest of the elders and the two circuit overseers involved, remained in their positions, with no harm. I didn’t accept the situation, as none of them was ready to apologize for their slanders nor had the Bethel arranged any disciplinary actions against them. While for 30 years or so, I religiously applied the “rules” of the Organization disfellowshipping unrepentant young brothers because of smoking, now that those who had to be of example, the elders and the circuit overseers, practiced evil deeds such as slandering without repenting (no excuses were ever offered), the Bethel preferred to hide the whole thing. No, I didn’t abandon the Organization because of my pride, nor because I didn’t accept that we are all imperfect human beings, but this accident was the one who enabled me to ask myself the very sensitive question: “Who are they?”, “Who is my so called ‘Mother’?”. “Why, while Paul said that we should not go to secular courts because we had mature brothers in the congregation, the entity who had to grant justice, but who in fact was covering-up wrong-doers simply because they were their ‘representatives’?” To answer all these questions, I started questioning the position of authority which the Organization has granted to the “FDS” and its ‘representing’ body, the Governing Body. - Did the Bible really support such an interpretation of Mathews 24:45? - If so, how could its interpretation factually be proved in today’s activities of the Organization? At first, I didn’t dismiss the FDS. At first I simply applied the term “bad slave” and “good slave” both as members of the same organization. This would have explained why, in some cases one can see the bad works of the FDS or its representatives, and in other cases se good works. Then, I started to investigate further my own beliefs. Even taking the interpretation the Organization offered as truth, was it factually the case? I didn’t then go into an independent interpretation of the scripture, but simply analyzed what I already knew about the facts related to the anointed ones, the FDS and the GB. Having been presiding overseer for years, I pretty well knew how the question of reporting the number the emblems partakers to the Bethel. The Society uses a little postcard form to report annually, after the memorial meeting, two single numbers: a. the total number of attendees and b. the number of those who were counted as having had taken the emblems (bread and wine), thus declaring of being part of the anointed ones, the class of the Faithful and Discrete Slave, the 144’000. No name, address, phone number of any of that was ever provided to the Bethel on the report, as there is no space available on the card to insert it. Nor the Bethel has any particular form, nor does the circuit overseer have a special caption in his visit report to the Society to indicate who these anointed ones are. Apart from their number, in the swinging range of 8000 units since about 20 years, the Society doesn’t know a thing, except, maybe, but not because there is any defined procedure, those of them who live in the Brooklyn Head Office. How on earth, a group of about 8000 people is supposed to “provide (spiritual) food” to the house of God and “manage” the Lord possessions on Earth, providing directions to local Bethels worldwide and finally individual elders if no one of them know each other, and the Society itself doesn’t even know how they are called? If all of this smoky dream was true, individual anointed brothers would be called in to meet with their peers, discuss Bible interpretations, write papers on their conclusions, provide guidance worldwide. They would have an agenda with predefined meeting sessions in one or several places on earth. If one of them would find that some of the staff being published didn’t sound ‘appropriate’ ‘reasonable’ and so on, he would be entitled to go back and report it to the Society. But NONE OF THIS EXISTS. I know personally and have known in the past more than one brother who is or was (having passed away by now) an anointed one, and none has even confirmed any of these normal processes. If you look at how the Congregations is organized world wide, nothing is left to the imagination of the individual elders. Everything is precisely defined, documented in pre-defined form, and books are printed to educate the elders on how to follow the procedures. Elders schools are held, circuit overseers come and control that the “procedures” are followed. Individual bothers know pretty well what all the different activities and meetings defined by the Organization are, and organize their whole life around them. How come that the core group of this Organization, who is supposed to be the only Channel between God and we poor stupid human beings is completely disorganized, and misses any instructions describing them how to accomplish their role here on earth. They don’t know each other, they don’t know what they should do to “direct” this Organization, if they have an inspiration (Holy Spirit) there is no procedure on how to process this information, as there is no structure no procedure on how to do all that. Given this scenario, how on earth can we believe that this Organization is directed by this Core Group? Just lots of crap!! Of course, one could say, but they are represented by a Governing Body, who has all the staff I am talking about. True, but given the evidence, I consider the GB as an entity who has usurped a role which was, according to their own interpretation, granted by Jesus to the FDS. No one of this last entity has ever elected, appointed any member of the GB. There is no procedure in place which enables the FDS to appoint any member as their representative on the Board of the GB. These guys appoint themselves, without any minimum consideration for those whom they pretend they represent. Without reporting, I am not saying regularly, but not even one single time a year to the ones they represent, the FDS, on their activities, successes, failures, and plans for the next reporting period. Have you ever seen any organization who has an Executive Committee who NEVER reports on anything to the ones they represent, the real stakeholders? All of this, my dear friends, was enough for me to reject both these entities as legitimate authorities approved by God to guide his people on earth. How did I finally leave the boat, how my whole family ended up taking the same decision, maybe I should leave it for a next post, as both you and I are probably quite tired at this point in time to concentrate in this subject. Nick!
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Paralipomenon
On October 6th I registered in this forum, and gave a brief description of my personal experience, promising I would expand later. The time has gone by very rapidly, other different priorities have kept me away from this forum, which I will not cover otherwise I would take even more time going down to the core of the subject.
My objective, in this forum, is to be of help to others who might be at a loss and who are confronted with the difficult issue of being loyal or leave the Organization. I believe I can offer not only my personal experience, but also the personal knowledge of both the teachings as well as the “theocratic” and administrative dispositions used by the Watchtower (if this is the right English expression used in the Organization).
My real mother tongue is not English, although I believe I am quite fluent and at ease in this language. Moreover, I live in a different part of the World; therefore it might be that some of my expressions may not be the ones you are acquainted with, for which I do apologize. If this happens, please do not hesitate correcting me, it will be beneficial to both the audience, who will finally understand what I am talking about, and myself, so that I can try to avoid repeating my errors in the future.
After my long experience as Jehovah Witness, one thing I now hate is proselytizing. I wonder how people have accepted me for so long, when this was my primary way of approaching others. Having said so let me try to expand on my personal experience. …………………. To keep your expectations at the right level, let me tell you that I will not reveal my true identity, as I need to remain “anonymous” to protect those I love from the firing back of the Organization. Nick is not my real name, nor my surname.
It simply points to Nicodemus, who preferred to stay in the shade, which is what I will be doing until the time matures and that I will feel free to come out in the light. What I believe is more important to all of you is not my real identity which I hope one day to reveal, but the reasons why after over 50 years as a JW I finally understood the need to separate from the Organization.
I am, moreover, convinced that many of the reasons that make this movement dangerous, reasons for which I will in the future expose my viewpoints, are also valid for other religious movements. I am not against religion per se. I do respect those who feel happy in any religion, if this is what their spiritual need requires, as long as the belief of this movement does not threaten the life and the security of others, as I do respect those who have decided to be part of no religion at all. It is not my mission here to dissuade those who are currently Jehovah Witnesses to continue to be part of the movement.
As it is not my mission to proselytize for any particular religion or to provide arguments for others to defend their own beliefs. My current only position is to be tolerant towards everyone, if at all possible. However, as I had to suffer damages while I was a Witness and, in particular, in the process which finally took me out of the movement, I have decided to share my motivations with those who are still in the Organization but who start to experience doubts of different nature and who may be reading in this forum.
I was educated since the age of 2 as a Jehovah Witness by my believing parents. I have been baptized now for over 50 years and since some four years I have “abandoned” the Organization, after four more years of “agony”. Now I am a simple “inactive” and one of the many nominal non-goers witnesses, but for many years I have been a “Leader” in the area, fulfilling several charges as elder since this “disposition” was introduced back in 1972. While during my whole life I never had any sort of problem with anyone within the Organization, all of a sudden, when I got 50 or so, I found myself in a very sad situation which caused me lots of troubles which I am not my intention to describe in any detail.
It has to be noted that the problems were caused by my co-elders with whom I had been serving for years. I eventually found out that the originator of the trouble was our circuit overseer, who was in fact one of my best friends whom I had known for over 20 years. For two years while I was trying to cope with the problem, the level of discussions in the body of elders deteriorated to the point that the Bethel sent over two other elders to mitigate the situation. In fact, the two new elders, I found out later, were nothing else but “buddies of the circuit overseer” who received instructions from the latter to collect as much evidence as possible against me.
These ended up writing a pages long report against me with over 15 slanders. At that point in time I resigned as elder and tried to get “justice” from the Bethel, who appointed a “service committee”. I trusted the system, and provided the required two witnesses who testified in my favor. I had to wait 12 months to get a final response, and during this period I exchanged several letters with the Bethel, which add up to over 130 pages.
In spite of the fact that my arguments were accepted, and I was cleared-up of any accusations, according to the “service committee”, the rest of the elders and the two circuit overseers involved, remained in their positions, with no harm. I didn’t accept the situation, as none of them was ready to apologize for their slanders nor had the Bethel arranged any disciplinary actions against them. While for 30 years or so, I religiously applied the “rules” of the Organization disfellowshipping unrepentant young brothers because of smoking, now that those who had to be of example, the elders and the circuit overseers, practiced evil deeds such as slandering without repenting (no excuses were ever offered), the Bethel preferred to hide the whole thing.
No, I didn’t abandon the Organization because of my pride, nor because I didn’t accept that we are all imperfect human beings, but this accident was the one who enabled me to ask myself the very sensitive question: “Who are they?”, “Who is my so called ‘Mother’?”. “Why, while Paul said that we should not go to secular courts because we had mature brothers in the congregation, the entity who had to grant justice, but who in fact was covering-up wrong-doers simply because they were their ‘representatives’?”
To answer all these questions, I started questioning the position of authority which the Organization has granted to the “FDS” and its ‘representing’ body, the Governing Body. - Did the Bible really support such an interpretation of Mathews 24:45? - If so, how could its interpretation factually be proved in today’s activities of the Organization?
At first, I didn’t dismiss the FDS. At first I simply applied the term “bad slave” and “good slave” both as members of the same organization. This would have explained why, in some cases one can see the bad works of the FDS or its representatives, and in other cases se good works.
Then, I started to investigate further my own beliefs. Even taking the interpretation the Organization offered as truth, was it factually the case? I didn’t then go into an independent interpretation of the scripture, but simply analyzed what I already knew about the facts related to the anointed ones, the FDS and the GB. Having been presiding overseer for years, I pretty well knew how the question of reporting the number the emblems partakers to the Bethel.
The Society uses a little postcard form to report annually, after the memorial meeting, two single numbers: a. the total number of attendees and b. the number of those who were counted as having had taken the emblems (bread and wine), thus declaring of being part of the anointed ones, the class of the Faithful and Discrete Slave, the 144’000.
No name, address, phone number of any of that was ever provided to the Bethel on the report, as there is no space available on the card to insert it. Nor the Bethel has any particular form, nor does the circuit overseer have a special caption in his visit report to the Society to indicate who these anointed ones are. Apart from their number, in the swinging range of 8000 units since about 20 years, the Society doesn’t know a thing, except, maybe, but not because there is any defined procedure, those of them who live in the Brooklyn Head Office.
How on earth, a group of about 8000 people is supposed to “provide (spiritual) food” to the house of God and “manage” the Lord possessions on Earth, providing directions to local Bethels worldwide and finally individual elders if no one of them know each other, and the Society itself doesn’t even know how they are called?
If all of this smoky dream was true, individual anointed brothers would be called in to meet with their peers, discuss Bible interpretations, write papers on their conclusions, provide guidance worldwide. They would have an agenda with predefined meeting sessions in one or several places on earth. If one of them would find that some of the staff being published didn’t sound ‘appropriate’ ‘reasonable’ and so on, he would be entitled to go back and report it to the Society. But NONE OF THIS EXISTS.
I know personally and have known in the past more than one brother who is or was (having passed away by now) an anointed one, and none has even confirmed any of these normal processes. If you look at how the Congregations is organized world wide, nothing is left to the imagination of the individual elders.
Everything is precisely defined, documented in pre-defined form, and books are printed to educate the elders on how to follow the procedures. Elders schools are held, circuit overseers come and control that the “procedures” are followed. Individual bothers know pretty well what all the different activities and meetings defined by the Organization are, and organize their whole life around them.
How come that the core group of this Organization, who is supposed to be the only Channel between God and we poor stupid human beings is completely disorganized, and misses any instructions describing them how to accomplish their role here on earth.
They don’t know each other, they don’t know what they should do to “direct” this Organization, if they have an inspiration (Holy Spirit) there is no procedure on how to process this information, as there is no structure no procedure on how to do all that.
Given this scenario, how on earth can we believe that this Organization is directed by this Core Group? Just lots of crap!! Of course, one could say, but they are represented by a Governing Body, who has all the staff I am talking about. True, but given the evidence, I consider the GB as an entity who has usurped a role which was, according to their own interpretation, granted by Jesus to the FDS.
No one of this last entity has ever elected, appointed any member of the GB. There is no procedure in place which enables the FDS to appoint any member as their representative on the Board of the GB. These guys appoint themselves, without any minimum consideration for those whom they pretend they represent.
Without reporting, I am not saying regularly, but not even one single time a year to the ones they represent, the FDS, on their activities, successes, failures, and plans for the next reporting period. Have you ever seen any organization who has an Executive Committee who NEVER reports on anything to the ones they represent, the real stakeholders?
All of this, my dear friends, was enough for me to reject both these entities as legitimate authorities approved by God to guide his people on earth. How did I finally leave the boat, how my whole family ended up taking the same decision, maybe I should leave it for a next post, as both you and I are probably quite tired at this point in time to concentrate in this subject. Nick! -
Paralipomenon
I took the liberty of inserting some line breaks for you Nick. I appologize if it changes the context of the post.
If you are using a browser other than Internet Explorer on this site, you need to make sure "Check here to use HTML formatting" is unselected and "Automatic Cr/Lf" is checked off. These options are above the "submit post" button.
Welcome to the site! -
Nick!
Finally I get to introduce myself ….
On October 6th I registered in this forum, and gave a brief description of my personal experience, promising I would expand later.
The time has gone by very rapidly, other different priorities have kept me away from this forum, which I will not cover otherwise I would take even more time going down to the core of the subject.My objective, in this forum, is to be of help to others who might be at a loss and who are confronted with the difficult issue of being loyal or leave the Organization. I believe I can offer not only my personal experience, but also the personal knowledge of both the teachings as well as the “theocratic” and administrative dispositions used by the Watchtower (if this is the right English expression used in the Organization).
My real mother tongue is not English, although I believe I am quite fluent and at ease in this language. Moreover, I live in a different part of the World; therefore it might be that some of my expressions may not be the ones you are acquainted with, for which I do apologize. If this happens, please do not hesitate correcting me, it will be beneficial to both the audience, who will finally understand what I am talking about, and myself, so that I can try to avoid repeating my errors in the future.
After my long experience as Jehovah Witness, one thing I now hate is proselytizing. I wonder how people have accepted me for so long, when this was my primary way of approaching others.
Having said so let me try to expand on my personal experience.
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To keep your expectations at the right level, let me tell you that I will not reveal my true identity, as I need to remain “anonymous” to protect those I love from the firing back of the Organization. Nick is not my real name, nor my surname. It simply points to Nicodemus, who preferred to stay in the shade, which is what I will be doing until the time matures and that I will feel free to come out in the light.
What I believe is more important to all of you is not my real identity which I hope one day to reveal, but the reasons why after over 50 years as a JW I finally understood the need to separate from the Organization.I am, moreover, convinced that many of the reasons that make this movement dangerous, reasons for which I will in the future expose my viewpoints, are also valid for other religious movements. I am not against religion per se. I do respect those who feel happy in any religion, if this is what their spiritual need requires, as long as the belief of this movement does not threaten the life and the security of others, as I do respect those who have decided to be part of no religion at all.
It is not my mission here to dissuade those who are currently Jehovah Witnesses to continue to be part of the movement. As it is not my mission to proselytize for any particular religion or to provide arguments for others to defend their own beliefs. My current only position is to be tolerant towards everyone, if at all possible.
However, as I had to suffer damages while I was a Witness and, in particular, in the process which finally took me out of the movement, I have decided to share my motivations with those who are still in the Organization but who start to experience doubts of different nature and who may be reading in this forum.
I was educated since the age of 2 as a Jehovah Witness by my believing parents. I have been baptized now for over 50 years and since some four years I have “abandoned” the Organization, after four more years of “agony”. Now I am a simple “inactive” and one of the many nominal non-goers witnesses, but for many years I have been a “Leader” in the area, fulfilling several charges as elder since this “disposition” was introduced back in 1972.
While during my whole life I never had any sort of problem with anyone within the Organization, all of a sudden, when I got 50 or so, I found myself in a very sad situation which caused me lots of troubles which I am not my intention to describe in any detail.
It has to be noted that the problems were caused by my co-elders with whom I had been serving for years. I eventually found out that the originator of the trouble was our circuit overseer, who was in fact one of my best friends whom I had known for over 20 years.For two years while I was trying to cope with the problem, the level of discussions in the body of elders deteriorated to the point that the Bethel sent over two other elders to mitigate the situation. In fact, the two new elders, I found out later, were nothing else but “buddies of the circuit overseer” who received instructions from the latter to collect as much evidence as possible against me. These ended up writing a pages long report against me with over 15 slanders. At that point in time I resigned as elder and tried to get “justice” from the Bethel, who appointed a “service committee”.
I trusted the system, and provided the required two witnesses who testified in my favor.
I had to wait 12 months to get a final response, and during this period I exchanged several letters with the Bethel, which add up to over 130 pages.
In spite of the fact that my arguments were accepted, and I was cleared-up of any accusations, according to the “service committee”, the rest of the elders and the two circuit overseers involved, remained in their positions, with no harm.
I didn’t accept the situation, as none of them was ready to apologize for their slanders nor had the Bethel arranged any disciplinary actions against them.
While for 30 years or so, I religiously applied the “rules” of the Organization disfellowshipping unrepentant young brothers because of smoking, now that those who had to be of example, the elders and the circuit overseers, practiced evil deeds such as slandering without repenting (no excuses were ever offered), the Bethel preferred to hide the whole thing.No, I didn’t abandon the Organization because of my pride, nor because I didn’t accept that we are all imperfect human beings, but this accident was the one who enabled me to ask myself the very sensitive question: “Who are they?”, “Who is my so called ‘Mother’?”. “Why, while Paul said that we should not go to secular courts because we had mature brothers in the congregation, the entity who had to grant justice, but who in fact was covering-up wrong-doers simply because they were their ‘representatives’?”
To answer all these questions, I started questioning the position of authority which the Organization has granted to the “FDS” and its ‘representing’ body, the Governing Body.
- Did the Bible really support such an interpretation of Mathews 24:45?
- If so, how could its interpretation factually be proved in today’s activities of the Organization?At first, I didn’t dismiss the FDS. At first I simply applied the term “bad slave” and “good slave” both as members of the same organization. This would have explained why, in some cases one can see the bad works of the FDS or its representatives, and in other cases se good works.
Then, I started to investigate further my own beliefs. Even taking the interpretation the Organization offered as truth, was it factually the case?
I didn’t then go into an independent interpretation of the scripture, but simply analyzed what I already knew about the facts related to the anointed ones, the FDS and the GB.Having been presiding overseer for years, I pretty well knew how the question of reporting the number the emblems partakers to the Bethel.
The Society uses a little postcard form to report annually, after the memorial meeting, two single numbers:
a. the total number of attendees and
b. the number of those who were counted as having had taken the emblems (bread and wine), thus declaring of being part of the anointed ones, the class of the Faithful and Discrete Slave, the 144’000.No name, address, phone number of any of that was ever provided to the Bethel on the report, as there is no space available on the card to insert it. Nor the Bethel has any particular form, nor does the circuit overseer have a special caption in his visit report to the Society to indicate who these anointed ones are. Apart from their number, in the swinging range of 8000 units since about 20 years, the Society doesn’t know a thing, except, maybe, but not because there is any defined procedure, those of them who live in the Brooklyn Head Office.
How on earth, a group of about 8000 people is supposed to “provide (spiritual) food” to the house of God and “manage” the Lord possessions on Earth, providing directions to local Bethels worldwide and finally individual elders if no one of them know each other, and the Society itself doesn’t even know how they are called?
If all of this smoky dream was true, individual anointed brothers would be called in to meet with their peers, discuss Bible interpretations, write papers on their conclusions, provide guidance worldwide. They would have an agenda with predefined meeting sessions in one or several places on earth. If one of them would find that some of the staff being published didn’t sound ‘appropriate’ ‘reasonable’ and so on, he would be entitled to go back and report it to the Society.
But NONE OF THIS EXISTS. I know personally and have known in the past more than one brother who is or was (having passed away by now) an anointed one, and none has even confirmed any of these normal processes.If you look at how the Congregations is organized world wide, nothing is left to the imagination of the individual elders. Everything is precisely defined, documented in pre-defined form, and books are printed to educate the elders on how to follow the procedures. Elders schools are held, circuit overseers come and control that the “procedures” are followed. Individual bothers know pretty well what all the different activities and meetings defined by the Organization are, and organize their whole life around them.
How come that the core group of this Organization, who is supposed to be the only Channel between God and we poor stupid human beings is completely disorganized, and misses any instructions describing them how to accomplish their role here on earth.
They don’t know each other, they don’t know what they should do to “direct” this Organization, if they have an inspiration (Holy Spirit) there is no procedure on how to process this information, as there is no structure no procedure on how to do all that.
Given this scenario, how on earth can we believe that this Organization is directed by this Core Group? Just lots of crap!!Of course, one could say, but they are represented by a Governing Body, who has all the staff I am talking about.
True, but given the evidence, I consider the GB as an entity who has usurped a role which was, according to their own interpretation, granted by Jesus to the FDS.
No one of this last entity has ever elected, appointed any member of the GB.
There is no procedure in place which enables the FDS to appoint any member as their representative on the Board of the GB.
These guys appoint themselves, without any minimum consideration for those whom they pretend they represent. Without reporting, I am not saying regularly, but not even one single time a year to the ones they represent, the FDS, on their activities, successes, failures, and plans for the next reporting period.
Have you ever seen any organization who has an Executive Committee who NEVER reports on anything to the ones they represent, the real stakeholders?All of this, my dear friends, was enough for me to reject both these entities as legitimate authorities approved by God to guide his people on earth.
How did I finally leave the boat, how my whole family ended up taking the same decision, maybe I should leave it for a next post, as both you and I are probably quite tired at this point in time to concentrate in this subject.
Nick!
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Gopher
Nick (Nicodemus),
Welcome to the discussion board. You are most welcome here.
Before I get to the rest of this post, I'll say your English expression was very readable and accurate. I'd just ask you to spell Jehovah's Witnesses with an " 's " after the h.
You really put your finger on the core of the problem with the JW's -- they claim to have holy spirit and to represent a perfect organization of God, and yet it's a man-made organization where special people get special favors. It's sad to hear you as a PO were slandered and no price was paid by your accusers. I have a small taste of that, I was DF'd due to the slander of my then-wife, whom the elders believed over me.
In your case and in mine, the internal cruelty and lack of love helped us to exit from the control of the WT Society. The WT Society is making new enemies every day, and they are losing a lot of their best and kindest people. Your case is a good example.
You're right, the JW's stretched the meaning of Matthew 24:45 about the "faithful slave" to give themselves more authority. Whoever said the "faithful slave" was a group anyway? It could just be individual believers.
I look forward to more installments of your story. I'm glad you are here. It is better to gain freedom later in life than never at all.
(P.S. To avoid the paragraph problem, if you're using Microsoft Word you should then paste your text into a Notepad first, and then over to this website. That will preserve your paragraph formatting.)
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llbh
Hi Nick,
Welcome!! What an interesting and detailed post, I had never ever considered the disconnect between the GB and the FDS, but it is now that you have pointed out very obvious. I have known 2 people of the anointed, and i am certain that the were not in contact with the GB.
I look forward to your next post
regards llbh