The necessity of failed prophetic dates

by proplog2 22 Replies latest jw friends

  • proplog2
    proplog2

    It is very tempting to ridicule the JW habit of setting dates for the end of the world/ Armageddon/ Great Tribulation. But prophecy has been a significant part of the Judaeo-Christian panorama. There has also been a great deal of tension between "prophets" and "preists".

    Prophets are ex-centric. They are "outsiders". Priests on the other hand are the "insiders". Who do you think wrote Deuteronomy chapter 13 and 18? The context has a prophet luring the people away to serve other Gods. Even if a prophet predicts something and it comes true he is supposed to be killed if he does it in the name of a foreign god. Of course if he makes a prediction, in the name of Jehovah, and it doesn't come true he is still to be put to death. So, basically, organizations don't want people popping up willy-nilly drawing attention away from the established hierarchy. Early Christians got to the point where they had little patience for prophets that would drift into a congregation and start sponging off their welfare funds. In fact some writings admonish congregations to send prophets on their way after just two days.

    Here is the paradox. Jesus was a prophet! He prophesied that there would be many "false prophets". Does this mean that his followers were to get out of the prophecy business for fear of being labeled false prophets? To further complicate the situation he sends a mixed message:

    Matt: 24:36 "Concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither ...

    Matt: 24:42 "Keep on the watch, therefore, because you do not know on what day your lord is coming."

    So what's the point of watching when Jesus already said at

    Matthew 24:27 "For just as the lightning comes out of eastern parts and shines over to western parts so the presence of the Son of man will be."

    While it is true that no one knows when the "Sign of the Son of Man" will appear in the heavens - there is something else that needs to be discerned first by Christ's followers. Jesus warned his followers:

    Matt. 24:15 Therefore, when you catch sight of the disgusting thing that causes desolation as spoken through Daniel the prophet, standing in a holy place THEN let those in Judea begin fleeing to the mountains...for then there will be great tribulation"

    So here is something that Christians are going to have to see as a signal in order to flee to a safer place. This is why Christians need to stay awake. They need to be alert to developments leading to this critical point. The need for vigilance is restated in Luke 21:34-36 but with this added clarification: vs 36 "Keep awake then, all the time making supplication that you may succeed in escaping all these things that are destined to occur and in standing before the Son of man."

    Now then how do you keep awake. If you have nothing to do - you become aimless. No big project on a week-end? You're going to lay around, eat, and sleep. But Jesus gave his disciples something to do - Matthew 28:19,20 Make disciples -teaching them...look I am with you all the days until the conclusion of the system of things.

    The objective was to form an association, a nation, that can survive the Great Tribulation. You need a group that is significant enough to get peoples attention. Jehovah's Witnesses now are the same size as the average member of the UN. They are an organization designed for survival. They are a hardened cadre that will go where they are told to go and do what they are told to do.
    They have built a network of people who trust each other. That's why they go to so many meetings. It isn't just the content of the meetings that is important. It is the face to face connections over a long period of time that creates trust.

    You don't build up an organization like JW's over night. With a steady 10% increase per year it would take over 120 years to get to the size they are today. And they could be much larger if they had sacrificed some of their strange teachings. How do you keep people signed on for such a long project. Would anyone even commit to the rigors of being a JW if they thought for a minute that the end wasn't very close? The belief in the immanence of the end has been an integral part of building this 6,000,000 strong international brotherhood. It was necessary that several generations of JW's would die and not see the end. Russel, Rutheford, Knorr, Franz and all their contemporaries worked in hope of seeing the end.

    Some haters of JW's love the fact that the increase in JW's in the USA has been close to zero. This is merely a sign that the work has been accomplished in the part of the world that is going to be destroyed. The USA/Babylon the Great is going to be destroyed by the Wild Beast/Russia. JW's will escape that tribulation because they will discern the sign of the disgusting thing standing where it shouldn't. They will flee as Jesus commanded. They will be able to flee to a safer place because their parents, grand-parents, great-grand parents all mistakenly thought the end was close and so devoted themselves to creating this new nation.

    "As we get nearer to the outbreak of the great tribulation, we may well receive some detailed instructions. Our safe journey through those troublesome days will depend on our keeping in step with other loyal servants of Jehovah... Today we may not clearly see why some organizational matters are handled in a certain way, but we have every reason to trust in Jehovah's guidance through his faithful channel of communication. At times our enemies may seem to be getting the upper hand. From our limited perspective, we may not be able to see the whole picture. Still, Jehovah is capable of maneuvering matters at the right moment just as he did back there for the sons of Israel." P19,20 Watchtower Dec 15 2007 Yeartext article: "Stand firm and see the salvation of Jehovah"

    SEE ALSO http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/145851/2633227/post.ashx#2633227

  • myelaine
    myelaine

    "They have built a network of people who trust each other. "

    really?...I thought that JW's feared saying anything contrary to the Societies teachings to anyone inside because there is the potential to get in BIG trouble.

    love michelle

  • proplog2
    proplog2

    myelaine: Trust emerges with familiarity over time. That's the advantage of having a full schedule of meetings and other activities. It creates a sense of family. Not everyone in a group of 150 are going to be trusted equally. But, I know of at least 10 at my hall that I can speak my mind to with absolutely no consequences. And most of the 10 (some elders) don't even agree with me. But that 10 also have varying trust levels with others in the congregation. That's what is meant by network of trust. It's so strong that a large number of x-jws still network with each other even though they have left the organization years ago.

  • Mum
    Mum

    My understanding of what a prophet is must be different from yours. The prophets tell us what we're doing wrong and what the consequences are likely to be. Psychics and soothsayers make weird predictions which, from time to time, might come true by sheer coincidence.

    That's my $.02.

    SandraC

  • lovelylil
    lovelylil

    You had my attention until I realized you were saying that the JW organization is God's organization on earth.

    Please give me scriptural support that God intended to create over time, a huge billion dollar publishing empire that will survive armegeddon?

    Lilly

  • Maddie
    Maddie

    proplog2 - Maybe I'm wrong but it seems to me that everything in the WT is conditional on obedience to them regardless of what it is. Therefore how can you have trust anyone in the WT knowing that you will be reported and even shunned if it is known you don't agree with everything. Many here have experienced this treatment by people they have had very close friendships with and whom they have trusted.

    Maddie

  • KW13
    KW13

    If you believe that the Organization is God's then you believe what they say.

    If you believe what they say, you agree with them that ALL SCRIPTURE IS INSPIRED OF GOD.

    If you believe ALL SCRIPTURE IS INSPIRED OF GOD you must accept Deuteronomy 18.

    If you accept Deuteronomy 18 then you cannot come to any conclusion other than this 'the watchtower society is a false prophet'.

    My Favourite Scripture;

    Luke 21:8 - He replied: "Watch out that you are not deceived. For many will come in my name, claiming, 'I am he,' and, 'The time is near.' Do not follow them. - If that does not describe the Watchtower Society exactly, then i will eat the Bible.

  • lovelylil
    lovelylil

    kw13,

    Very well put young man! Lilly

  • Gary1914
    Gary1914
    Matt. 24:15 Therefore, when you catch sight of the disgusting thing that causes desolation as spoken through Daniel the prophet, standing in a holy place THEN let those in Judea begin fleeing to the mountains...for then there will be great tribulation"

    So here is something that Christians are going to have to see as a signal in order to flee to a safer place. This is why Christians need to stay awake. They need to be alert to developments leading to this critical point. The need for vigilance is restated in Luke 21:34-36 but with this added clarification: vs 36 "Keep awake then, all the time making supplication that you may succeed in escaping all these things that are destined to occur and in standing before the Son of man."

    The signal or disgusting thing will never, ever be perceived by any Jehovah's Witness, as that would mean that they would have had to be trained to recognize it. No, the signal or disgusting thing will have to be pointed out to them by their leaders, the Governing Body, and who knows what arbitrary thing they will take as the signal. Your whole premise rests on the fact that Jehovah's Witnesses are true christians, that they have God's approval and that what they teach is true.

    You have no proof, other than their word, that any of that is true.

  • VoidEater
    VoidEater

    The conundrum is "black is really white". The GB say that they are both the only source of truth, AND that they are fallible. The only way to make this work is if the GB would provide their truth, AND allow disagreement.

    Sadly, this is not what they do. Instead, they insist on both their shield of human imperfection, AND the sword of obedience.

    That's more than paradox. That's just plain silly.

    You cannot be the source of perfect truth, and the seller of mistakes.

    Truly I say unto you, I could still gladly call myself a JW if there were room for disagreement, and a true HUMBLENESS (that of a faithful and discreet slave) on the part of the GB regarding their fallibility. But instead we get this hypocrisy of "I'm always right" - "Except where I'm wrong" - "Don't you date contradict me".

    People die because organ transplants are wrong - then one day they're ok. People die because blood fractions are taboo - then one day they're ok. People are welcomed into the congregation - then one day because they smoke they're disfellowshipped. People are commanded to go out in field service - then one day they're "invited" to join in, and THEN they're disassociated because they choose to not go out in field service!

    There are real world consequences to this attitide - necessity of failure? I don't think so.

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