Another Take On the New WT Format

by AllTimeJeff 29 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Vinny
    Vinny
    Oompa said:..."I really feel the JW only WT is just a cost cutting procedure and nothing more. "

    **** What are you talking about? That makes no sense to me. How does printing up two different WT editions accomplish cutting costs? Would not CONDENSING two magazines into one be a more effective means of accomplishing this?

    I believe they wish to isolate the JW's even more.

    And, am interested as to why do you refer to WT changes by saying, "That is why it would not even surprise me if we change that date again."

    Just curious about the we thing along with your minimizing their intentions here.

  • Awakened07
    Awakened07
    The main change (maybe only change) in 1995 is the definition of Generation.....As long as it is not linked to a human lifespan, any change over to "anointed only" verses "earthlings" is totally non-consequential....as is the date 1914! That is the point I have been trying to make.

    I think I understand what you've been trying to say: That the new, upcoming change really isn't a change at all when it comes to the timeline, because the post 1995 'light' "generation" already was pretty much "timeless", as the "composite sign" that mankind would see wouldn't be over until the great tribulation, and therefore the period of this "generation" could go on and on until Armageddon.

    So... Why change it again now at all, if this is the case, you may ask?

    I think it's important to see the big picture. This new change is not one new change on it's own in my opinion; it has to be seen in conjunction with the previous 2007 change, that 1935 is no longer the cut-off date for the anointed. Combined, these new pieces of 'light' really makes the period indefinite, and in addition it ensures that the teaching that some of the anointed will still be here during the great tribulation is 'intact'. As it used to be (pre 2007), the anointed were for the most part those that felt the calling up until 1935, with a few exceptions for those who were later "replacements". If a person felt the calling in 1935 and was 25 years old (that would be logical, since you'd have to have proven yourself as a good JW over a period of time to be deemed good enough to become anointed), that person would have been born in 1910. That means that person would be 97 years old now in 2007. How many 97 year olds are left, and especially of the anointed? Yes, you'd still have the "replacements", but if this org. is going to go anywhere in the future, you'd have to have more than those few. Besides - if too many 'replacements' emerged, it would put into question the divinity of the whole selection process of the anointed in the first place.

    And in comes to new, combined light: "Heaven is open for all" again; 1935 is pretty much out the window. Combine that with the 'generation' being only the anointed, and you now have a composite that ensures that: new anointed will keep on coming, and as long as they keep coming (as they will), the 'generation' and that time period can be pretty much indefinite. On the surface it may seem like a superficial and unnecessary change over the 1995 understanding, but I think there are subtle, important differences.

    As for those of you who wish to run with this news to your JW family and friends, I'd like to call attention to the fact that scholar of this forum was ecstatic about receiving this new light. As I suspect most Witnesses will be.

    But - all that said, I agree with you oompa that it seems 1914 becomes less and less important. I guess it's still seen as the year Jesus became King, and also marks the end of the gentile times, and the start of a troubling period of the 'last days' (because WW1 conveniantly started then). But it's "vanished" as an anchor point for a chronology of when Armageddon would have to come. It's very open now. Pre-1995 their teachings had a definite "expiration date". Even pre-2007 actually, because the anointed were becoming so old now.

  • Borgia
    Borgia

    Vinny,

    In these cases I would leave room for both options and not either or.

    Say watchtower runs at 25 million copies an issues. times 24. That would make 600 million copies a year.

    The private or members only watchtower needs to be published say up to 7 million copies 10 x a year. 70 million copies. (or less?)

    The public issue of the WT runs at the same number. but only 12x a year. = 300 million copies.

    That's 370 million a year. That saves 220 million copies.

    Thus this move appears to be a huge cost cutter. And it makes it easier to concentrate on disemminating the public copies not for personal use. It makes it easier to balance supply and demand.So I would expect through the KM some guidelines for the R&F..

    I agree that it makes navelstaring more of a possibility.

    As far as the generation goes: If they would apply that designation to the currenlty living annointed ones......that could them very well bring them some years down the road. (on a cynical side of things: they do believe that the annointed ones are still alive and actively participating in spreading the GN, is it not?)

    Cheers

    Borgia

  • oompa
    oompa
    vinny: And, am interested as to why do you refer to WT changes by saying, "That is why it would not even surprise me if we change that date again."

    Just curious about the we thing along with your minimizing their intentions here.

    Lots of very smart posts on this thread...and good catch vinny. I sometimes say WE for brevity and perhaps to remind me and others I am still a JW technically, not df'd or da'd ...yet. I try to stay informed because nearly all my family is in.

    Borgia did a great job taking care of your wt cost saving question as to reducing the printing.

    Awakened 07: the 'generation' and that time period can be pretty much indefinite. On the surface it may seem like a superficial and unnecessary change over the 1995 understanding, but I think there are subtle, important differences.

    Awakened I love your post, but since the 1995 "light" makes the time period indefinite at best, what are the subtle and important differences that result from any pending changes?...they have not really even happened yet, and I don't see how they can change anything as it relates to when the end comes......oompa

  • JCanon
    JCanon
    Generation pre-1995: Anyone old enough to have lived through 1914, then anyone old enough to understand 1914, and finally anyone born in 1914. The "END" had to come by 1994. Applied to all mankind.

    We know 1994 didn't turn out for the WTS, but few have added any alternative exegetical understanding. I do believe COJ talks about it in some of his articles, and also Ray Franz. Basically they noted that Christ isn't supposed to arrive at the very beginning of the generation that might have begun in 1914, but near the very end. You know, all those signs and events lead up to the "great tribulation" and then "Immediately after the tribulation of those days..." there is darkness, spiritual darkness and then the sign of the son of man appears, signifying the Christ had returned.

    Now, since the last generation begins with a world war as the first sign, that is, kingdom vs kingdom and nation vs nation, 1914 is still a good marker for the "last generation" and one that ends in 1994, 80 years later. But 1994 doesn't work for the WTS because they are not looking for the second coming near the end of the generation ending in 1994 like they should be, but are looking for Armageddon.

    If we will also notice, the "great tribulation" is NOT Armageddon. Look closely! This is a "tribulation" where women with children will have a harder time than those without them? Does that sound like Amrageddon? "Flee to the mountains" to escape? How can anybody run into the mountains and escape Armageddon.

    Oh yes, and here's something another anointed brother pointed out to me once. He was saying he never could figure out what it meant when it said that "unless the days were cut short, no flesh would be saved." If we presume this is a reference to mankind in general and this is supposed to be Armageddon, then it seems unless God stopped Armageddon from continuing then he might accidentally wipe out EVERYBODY, including the righteous? In fact, this suggests that... OOPS! A lot of the holy ones got accidentally killed during Armageddon, perhaps the greater number of them and if Armageddon wasn't cut short then none of the righteous would survive! But is God going to kill his righteous ones by accident?

    THINK!

    Finally, the Bible clearly says, "Immediately AFTER the tribulation of those days..." the sign of the son of man would appear. So why is the sign appearing AFTER Armageddon? I mean after Armgeddon only the righteous are alive, right? So when they see the sign, why are they beating themselves in lamentation? The WTS is clueless about how this works. But only because they have the wrong understanding.

    Instead, if they actually follow Daniel, this tribulation was directed at the "holy ones" who would be "dashed to pieces" who were "Daniel's people." The Jews.

    Think about the signs. Food shortages, persecution, social unrest (agitations, not "earthquakes") in one place after another. The worst event in human history is considered the HOLOCAUST. Why doesn't the Bible mention that as part of one of the signs of the last days, especially since it is primarily aimed at the Jews, God's chosen people? Well, it does! The HOLOCAUST is the great tribulation! It's a big deal. It is aimed at the woman because it was the women of Israel who became prostitutes and killed all those babies of the foreigners. So the same thing would happen to the Jews, generations later. Their children would be deported and burned alive.

    THAT is what the "great tribulation" is. And it's hard on women with children because a single woman can run and literally hide in the mountains and forrests like many did. Otherwise, the Jewish ghettos were bricked in and then liquidated. It was just as the Bible says, as soon as you saw the disgusting thing in a holy place, then it was time to flee. When the Germans started persecuting the holy ones, that is the Jews and JWs, then it was time to move out of the cities, flee, flee to the mountains. But if you had small children, how could you? Small children don't work out when trying to hide. They cry, they make noice, they can't keep up. A woman had to choose whether to leave her children to be killed and save herself or just die with her children. It was horrible.

    Okay, so the WTS doesn't have the correct understanding. So how can we fix the "last generation" issue; that is, for the sake of Bible truth? Answer, for one we can use the correct chronology for the NB and Persian Period. Move the 1st of Cyrus to 455 BCE where it original was. That means the fall of Jerusalem occurs in 529 BCE. How so? Because 70 years transpires from the last deportation, year 23 of Nebuchadnezzar until the 1st of Cyrus. That would be 525 BCE. 4 years earlier, year 19 would fall in 529 BCE. That means the second coming is not set to occur until 1992 anyway.

    But guess what? We don't need just the "7 times" prophecy with correct dating to determine the year of the second coming. The second coming also occurs to fulfill "1335 days". That is, the tribulation of the Jews ends 1290 days. That final restoration occurs in 1947 when the Jews for the last time are restored to their homeland. This is the 70th jubilee!

    http://www.geocities.com/siaxares/jcovwk1996G.GIF

    The messiah would thus arrive 45 years after the Jews are restored to their homeland and come out of exile. 45 plus 1947 is 1992. Our only concern is whether 1992 occurs before 1994, then, right? It does!

    So the "last generation" indeed was fulfilled, since the last thing promised to occur with all those signs, is the second coming and the "sign of the son of man" appearing, which it did. It appeared to certain anointed ones who would recognize the sign and then "beat themselves in lamentation" over the sign, because the sign was a depiction of the dead Christ.

    Armageddon didn't happen by 1994 because the Bible never said Armageddon would happen by the end of that generation, only the second coming.

    Now the WTS, who are led by the anointed, KNOW THIS now. The flock might not be able to follow this, but they certainly can. Tell a non-JW that certain passages in the Bible are fulfilled by JWs and they will laugh at you. But the WTS believes it fulfills lots of prophecies, like being the "faithful and discreet slave" and preaching the good news! Well, in fact, that's true! JWs are/were God's spiritual temple alongside the Jews. But the GB, as also prophesied, has become apostate.

    You see, someone in the Writing Committee has no problem understanding, for instance, that the sea, means the false doctrines of Christendom. They have no problem as well, understanding, therefore that the earth represents Biblical stability. They have no problem thinking that they themselves have more Biblical stability than Christendom a world that believes in the pagan trinity doctrine. So when you point out to them that the Lamb, coming out of the earth represents the GB who has now become apostate, they understand that completely. That's because they can see the earth representing Jehovah's temple arrangement.

    Or if you point out to someone on the Writing Committee that 2 Thess 2:4 is a reference to the GB, they know they have to accept that argument because the "man of lawlessness" makes itself a God in God's own house. It is part of the temple of "THE God", meaning Jehovah's temple. Who makes up Jehovah's temple? They do! Tell someone not a witness that the anointed make up God's temple and they won't believe it. But tell one of the anointed that and they understand that perfectly. So you see, they KNOW that you can't be a God in God's own house unless you're in charge of it. The only entity in charge of Jehovah's people is the "Faithful and Discreet Slave" God.

    The WTS is thus part of the antichrist, the man of lawlessness, and as prophesied, comes out of God's own organization, rises up in God's own house and suppresses other "holy ones" who should be gods as well. This fits the GB totally, who rule with a hard hand over everybody in the organization and makes it so that if you go against them, you are kicked out of the organization.

    So THEY know! 2 Thess. clearly says that before the messiah arrives, the man of lawlessness has to be revealed. Thus the GB were notified they were being "disfellowshipped" and removed from God's favor and cast into "spiritual darkness" on November 10, 1992, 45 days before the second coming. Then president and chief Apostate, Fred Franz died on December 23, 1992, just 2 days before the second coming.

    So what is the WTS up to? They know they don't have truth and are the false prophet, so what else is left for them to do but to keep the organization going so they can keep the money coming in. There is big bucks in false prophesy. It is clear to them that those following them will follow them regardless of whether they are Biblically accurate or not! So they are closing ranks. Making more and more of them loyal to the entity of the Watchtower Society. Their "private" JW-only Watchtower makes them feel like they are ever so special and belong to a private club.

    They are out to fulfill their own destiny as the False Prophet. I guess they figure since they are "out" they may as well go out with a bang. Thus the 666 beast (Christendom) and the Flase Prophet (JW organization) are "still alive" when they are cast into the lake of fire, apparently the same time Babylon the Great is destroyed by the UN. That is likely all religion will be considered as part of Babylon the Great and the UN will ban all religion and confiscate all the funds from organized religion. Maybe even lock up the leaders. Forbid them to run corporations or own property. In the meantime, why not milk this organization for all it can?

    When you have the correct dating and the correct understanding, then 1914-1994 last generation works. It doesn't bring Armageddon but the second coming. The "great tribulation" was the Holocaust. The WTS will never get it right, because they are the Rich Man in torment now, they are in spiritual darkness. Jehovah is out to embarrass them spirituality, to expose their shame of nakedness before their final destruction, coming very soon.

    Now you know.

    JCanon

  • Gill
    Gill

    Personally and with respect, I did not find the first issue of the JW Wacktower to be benign!

    It was 'suggesting' that the only way to happiness was to give up your job and pioneer full time! That's not benign! It's not sensible! It is down right foolish!

    The only way to be happy is to be a full time slave of the WatchTower Society is DANGEROUS!

  • AllTimeJeff
    AllTimeJeff

    A thousand apologies for calling it "benign". I left my quote up in context, although I wish I could take it down.... Not what I meant....

    Probably because every WT says the same thing packaged in different ways, my point was that nothing out of the usual was in the WT. I'll tell ya, when I was on the way out, I would read the WT and roll my eyes every other sentence.

    I agree with everyone here that the WT and it's insidious suggestions about how their flock should live in "this time of the end" is poisonous and ruins lives. That is why I started this thread, because in addition to the financial benefits to the borg, this new edition of the WT is an opportunity for them to more directly "command" over time what they feel the flock should do. I do believe that this will happen over time.

    This first issue is par for their cultish course, but I predict it will get worse.

  • Gill
    Gill

    Jeff - I fear you are right!

    It may get much worse!

  • edmond dantes
    edmond dantes

    Hi,

    Think Venus Fly Trap and you won't be far wrong.

  • TJ - iAmCleared2Land
    TJ - iAmCleared2Land
    To ban coffee you would have to ban tea.
    They would also have to ban pepsi, coke, and chocolate.

    If they ban chocolate, there will be a mass exodus.

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit